Remedies used long-term with unrecognized side effects

[Guest guest]

How about simplifying the problem a bit by requiring that students spend a

required amount of time with one particular practitioner before they are allowed

to sit for the license exam. This would assure that the students get a cohesive

picture of the treatment style of a single person instead of the mix of styles

that most of us experienced in our training.

 

>>>>I do not see any problem with mixed styles as long as there are enough

hours, much more than now

alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, unfortunately, economics and the criteria you describe wouldn't

allow for such a thing. I also didn't think something like this could

or should be legislated.

 

However, we do have another option.

 

It is called mentoring.

 

Somehow, students gravitate to specific teachers, styles and/or

practitioners.

 

There should be some way that such individuals could mentor students as

they work into the world of clinical practice and continuing studies.

 

I already mentor in an informal manner, but perhaps some type of

program could be developed in the future.

 

 

On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 07:45 AM, Marnae Ergil wrote:

 

> A great idea, but problematic. How to verify the quality of the

> practitioner the student is working with? Are students really

> qualified to

> make the choices? SHould the school make the choice? How does the

> practitioner get paid? Would there be gauging of the students? Part

> of

> the reason the idea didn't go far was the fear of the student being

> defrauded by the practitioner and becoming an office employee rather

> than

> really learning practice. In theory it is great, in practice much more

> difficult. Also, I think that the proposal was that the student be

> with a

> practitioner for quite an extended period of time - exacting a

> financial

> hardship on the student who, once he/she graduates must begin paying

> off

> loans etc and this type of study does not qualify for FA! Ah, living

> in a

> modern world. Perhaps if the teacher could be convinced to feed and

> house

> the student as was traditionally done we might get somewhere!

>

> Marnae

>

> At 07:31 AM 10/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>> A great idea, Jason. I feel the same way. Interestingly, this idea

>> was proposed to the California board a few years ago, but it was

>> killed.

>>

>>

>> On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 10:46 PM, Jason Robertson wrote:

>>

>>> How about simplifying the problem a bit by requiring that students

>>> spend a required amount of time with one particular practitioner

>>> before they are allowed to sit for the license exam. This would

>>> assure that the students get a cohesive picture of the treatment

>>> style

>>> of a single person instead of the mix of styles that most of us

>>> experienced in our training.

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

The mentor idea might also alleviate Marnae's misgivings about students being

able to make informed decisions about who to study with. This is a great idea.

As you said Z'ev, there needs to be some incentive for the senior practitioner.

Although Marnae mentioned concerns about fears that the students might become

glorified office assistants, even working the front desk teaches alot (most of

us know nothing about running an office when we graduate). Maybe simply

encouraging practicing acupuncturists to hire students at minimum wage 1-2 days

a week would have the desired effect. Students, of course, should take some

initiative and present themselves to someone they trust and respect.

 

 

We have another option,

It is called mentoring.

 

Somehow, students gravitate to specific teachers, styles and/or

practitioners.

 

There should be some way that such individuals could mentor students as

they work into the world of clinical practice and continuing studies.

 

I already mentor in an informal manner, but perhaps some type of

program could be developed in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason Robertson, L.Ac.

Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi

 

Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

 

home-86-010-8405-0531

cell- 86-010-13520155800

 

 

 

 

The New with improved product search

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree - I think that the mentoring system is a great one. It has

certainly seen greater growth and support in CA than in NY. When we first

came here (1993) the thought of having a student in your office was a real

tough one for most practitioners - legitimate concerns about patients etc.

but also " I don't have the time " - we are slowly starting to see it happen

- still quite limited but beginning. It requires a more mature profession

to understand the value. I have no problem with students spending time as

an office assistant - if that as a part of the process was made clear at

the outset. Setting the guidelines and making sure that expectations are

met on both sides is the trick. I certainly encourage this on an informal

basis but I agree with Z'ev that I would not like to see it legislated. I

prefer the self-selection process.

 

marnae

 

At 04:29 PM 10/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>

>The mentor idea might also alleviate Marnae's misgivings about students

>being able to make informed decisions about who to study with. This is a

>great idea. As you said Z'ev, there needs to be some incentive for the

>senior practitioner. Although Marnae mentioned concerns about fears that

>the students might become glorified office assistants, even working the

>front desk teaches alot (most of us know nothing about running an office

>when we graduate). Maybe simply encouraging practicing acupuncturists to

>hire students at minimum wage 1-2 days a week would have the desired

>effect. Students, of course, should take some initiative and present

>themselves to someone they trust and respect.

>

>

>We have another option,

>It is called mentoring.

>

>Somehow, students gravitate to specific teachers, styles and/or

>practitioners.

>

>There should be some way that such individuals could mentor students as

>they work into the world of clinical practice and continuing studies.

>

>I already mentor in an informal manner, but perhaps some type of

>program could be developed in the future.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Jason Robertson, L.Ac.

>Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi

>

>Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

>

>home-86-010-8405-0531

>cell- 86-010-13520155800

>

>

>

>

>The New with improved product search

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Jason Robertson wrote:

Maybe simply encouraging practicing acupuncturists to hire students

at minimum wage 1-2 days a week would have the desired effect.

Students, of course, should take some initiative and present

themselves to someone they trust and respect. >>>

 

 

Jason:

 

Most acupuncturists can't make a living themselves, much less hire

someone. This is not a long range solution.

 

We should improve students' skills before they graduate and are set

loose on the public. There's more bag for the buck so to speak when

the curriculum is state of the art in the first place.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

How about a general chiming in by anyone reading these posts about the following

statement by Jim regarding the mentor concept and the idea of hiring a student

one-two days/week. I know that even in my first year of practice, I often was

happy with the secretarial service that the group I worked with provided. I am

under the impression that alot of you out there are working with groups (massage

therapists, chiropractors etc.) I know that this is a generalization but

nonetheless reflects my experience.

Jason Robertson

 

Jason:

 

Most acupuncturists can't make a living themselves, much less hire someone. This

is not a long range solution.

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

 

Jason Robertson, L.Ac.

Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi

 

Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

 

home-86-010-8405-0531

cell- 86-010-13520155800

 

 

 

 

The New with improved product search

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Jason Robertson wrote:

How about a general chiming in by anyone reading these posts about

the following statement by Jim regarding the mentor concept and the

idea of hiring a student one-two days/week.>>>

 

 

Jason:

 

I'm not saying I'm against the mentor concept. I mentor a number of

new and established practitioners and offer free pulse study groups

for practitioners who attend my seminars.

 

My remark is to the point that it is not a complete solution. It is

more like a safety net after graduation. We need to create a

solution in the classrooms before students are set loose upon an

unsuspecting public.

 

 

Jim Ramholz