Digest Number 1626/herbal use in steroid sensitive conditions

[Guest guest]

Zev wrote

 

" That is not all that is necessary. Long term use in China

 

of traditional prescriptions sets a precedent for our use,

based on pattern differentiation. If they were harmful to

people, they would have been eliminated. "

 

Well Zev, I have to wonder about that in the instance of

steroid sensitive cancers, such as prostate cancer and

breast cancer. These are the most prevalent cancers in the

United states, not China. And how many Chinese lived ong

enough to even develop prostate cancer hundreds of years

ago.

The jury may still be out on that one...

Gabrielle

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The jury may still be out on that one...

Gabrielle

>>>There are many other questions as well. And we need to ask them

Alon

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Gabrielle Mathieu wrote:

> The jury may still be out on that one...

 

 

 

 

 

Gabrielle:

 

I agree with this important point. All CM needs to be reevaluated in

terms of contemporary clinical practice. All the more so because

clinical results in Chinese studies are often suspect and may not be

reproducible.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Zev wrote

 

" That is not all that is necessary. Long term use in China of traditional

prescriptions sets a precedent for our use, based on pattern differentiation.

If they were harmful to people, they would have been eliminated. "

 

Well Zev, I have to wonder about that in the instance of steroid sensitive

cancers, such as prostate cancer and breast cancer. These are the most prevalent

cancers in the United states, not China. And how many Chinese lived long enough

to even develop prostate cancer hundreds of years ago.

The jury may still be out on that one...

Gabrielle

 

Hi Gabrielle,

 

I couldn't resist responding on CHA as well. I think Z'ev was addressing CM

practice to CM diagnostics, not WM disease states. That said, you make an

important point. The clinical scene in America is utterly different than the

clinical scenario in other countries as well as in history in general. If it

sounds like I'm harping on diet ... well, I am. The Surgeon General and CDC say

infectious disease is not as important in America as diet and exercise.

 

A light went off in my head when you responded to Z'ev regarding differences in

clinical findings between the U.S. and China. Cornell University's department

of Nutritional Biochemistry under T. Colin Campbell did a huge nutritional study

in China in the late 1980s with a comparison to the U.S. They implicated high

numbers of grams of animal protein intake (in the U.S.) as the cause for

elevated levels of estrogen and testosterone leading to earlier puberties than

normal (about 10 years of age in the U.S.) and difficult

menopause, increased breast cancer and prostate cancer. These are all findings

in the U.S. in contrast to those in China. The word from Cornell then is to

keep the grams of

protein down. Two or three ounces of meat per day is adequate. Okay, I got it

out. ;-) On behalf of the public service and my buddy Nam Singh, I want to

give two cheers for a well cooked soup with a little meat and lots of vegies.

It keeps my energy levels high as well as my " love handles " small.

 

In friendship and high regard,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In this case, perhaps we can argue that phytoestrogens found in many

herbs are useful for cancer patients, and shouldn't be eliminated?

 

 

On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 08:18 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

 

> Z'ev,

>

> According to nutritional studies at Cornell Univ. and elsewhere your

> thesis that " Phytoestrogens (i.e., weak estrogens found in plant

> foods) may have antiestrogenic effects " is upheld. The use of soy

> protein is implicated in antiestrogenic effects and appears protective

> of cancers stimulated by endogenous estrogen, including breast cancer.

>

> Emmanuel Segmen