Guest guest Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 Marnae The problem is that without knowing the context or knowing TK or knowing something about CM it is certainly possible for the Web to feed the fantasy of what CM is - a coherent poetic medicine that is basically seamless in its explanation of health and illness. We all know that it is more complex than this and that 'knowing' and the history of CM is extremely problematic >>> So how much " fantasy " does a good medicine need? I hope that gets sorted out in san diego. I'd like to be there. In my experience CM is occasionally " a coherent poetic medicine that is basically seamless in its explanation of health and illness " . Especially when the patients aren't particularly sick to begin with which seems to be the case with most patients who have read the Web, and " believed the fantasy " . The more ill that people are and the longer that they have been ill, the less inclined they are to fantasize about medicine. and the more important it is that the practioner be " seemless " in his or her " explination of health and illness " . Because, as i guess its safe to say, " we " have discovered medicine never has been so seamless. But who can put that up front? On a pamphlet maybe? " DR. so and so has been teaching and practicing for over 20 and has discovered that what we don't know about human health and illness is still a mole-hill compared to the mountain that we don't know. " We couldn't and shouldn't stop people from believing in the myth of medicine. And at the same time it is our job to understand the complexities and vagaries and limitations of our medicine and be damn honest in our presentation of that understanding. How one allows the " fantasy " and yet is " honest " is not simple, at least not for me. I wouldn't call it a " problem " but i do call it a " practice " in all that that implies. i certainly appreciate that we are discussing how we do it as a profession (having taken the liberty to frame the discussion such). and though i will not make it to san diego this year i reckon this topic will be discussed for many years to come. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Marnae, I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my students a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman Practical Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple introduction, and tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts to get a good foundation., including the Fundamentals. But in all these discussions, no one has mentioned a single thing -- not one sentence even -- from the Web that could be considered erroneous, incorrect, overly simplified, misleading, or perpetuating fantasies. Can you? Julie > Julie - we too use the Web - but only as a supplement to other, much more > extensive theoretical textbooks. Our primary text is > Wiseman's Fundamentals. The problem with the Web as a textbook is that it > is not written for the practitioner. It is nicely written, it > reads easily and it often gives a false sense of simplicity in CM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Julie - errors or incorrect information no - and I don't think I said that there were any. However, for example, the book limits itself to discussion of the 8 Principles as the primary diagnostic lens through which to view a patient - there is little to no mention of the SHL or Wen Bing theory. It is somewhat of a totalizing text in that it gives the view that CM is a completely coherent and seamless practice which it is not. It doesn't really place the medicine in a historical context (unless you read the appendices and the footnotes which student often don't). Don't get me wrong - I like the book and of the books written for the general introduction it still remains the best - especially the new edition - the real meat of the book is in the appendices. As either Ken or Bob pointed out earlier, if one doesn't read Ted's introduction one really cannot assess the book in terms of what the author thinks he is doing. Ted himself states that " any assertion is automatically a complex problematic and an opportunity for contending understandings. My hermeneutic tendency would have liked to pursue the paradoxical knowledge produced by irreducible uncertainty. " But, unless one reads the forward, one does not understand that the book is written by someone who at the time was a " novice " in the field and who was working out his own understandings. As he states " my growth is reflected in what has been altered " [in the second edition]. The book gives an impression of certainty to the theory of CM that the uninformed or unguided reader cannot necessarily understand as the process of a practitioner learning to accept the contradictions and paradoxes of CM. Marnae At 07:07 PM 10/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Marnae, > >I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my students >a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman Practical >Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple introduction, and >tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts to get a >good foundation., including the Fundamentals. > >But in all these discussions, no one has mentioned a single thing -- not one >sentence even -- from the Web that could be considered erroneous, incorrect, >overly simplified, misleading, or perpetuating fantasies. Can you? > >Julie > > > > > Julie - we too use the Web - but only as a supplement to other, much more > > extensive theoretical textbooks. Our primary text is > > Wiseman's Fundamentals. The problem with the Web as a textbook is that it > > is not written for the practitioner. It is nicely written, it > > reads easily and it often gives a false sense of simplicity in CM. > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Marnae, thank you so much. I have always felt the appendices were critical in the Web. Thanks for taking the time to provide your critique. Julie - " Marnae Ergil " <marnae Monday, October 06, 2003 7:39 PM Re: More discusion on the Web > Julie - errors or incorrect information no - and I don't think I said that > there were any. However, for example, the book limits itself > to discussion of the 8 Principles as the primary diagnostic lens through > which to view a patient - there is little to no mention of the SHL > or Wen Bing theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Just to add - the discussion of the Web came from Ken's question on how we present ourselves to the consumer and whether we can stand behind the presentation of CM to the public. Web came up as an example because it is such an important book in terms of our public presentation - if there is any one book that the patient is likely to have read it is the Web. The problem is that without knowing the context or knowing TK or knowing something about CM it is certainly possible for the Web to feed the fantasy of what CM is - a coherent poetic medicine that is basically seamless in its explanation of health and illness. We all know that it is more complex than this and that 'knowing' and the history of CM is extremely problematic. It is not a medicine that was created 2000 years and has come down the years unchanged. We do not practice the medicine of the Nei Jing, but neither did practitioners 1000 years ago. Yes, texts throughout China and in the West are peppered with quotes from the Nei Jing. We must reach to our roots to authenticate what we do but the social/cultural milieu in which we live is different and it influences our understanding of CM, our understanding of health and disease, and it cannot be ignored. So, to get back to Ken's original questions, what are we going to do about the portrayal of CM which, according to PUU is a false portrayal that is not based in history - well, the most important thing to do is to keep writing and keep teaching. But do it well - make our students into critical readers and thinkers who do not simply accept what is given to them at face value but will actually read further and question their teachers. This is something that we must do - once we have given our students the fundamentals and they have passed through the rigors of all of the memorization that must be done - and even while we are doing this - get them thinking and asking and writing and reading. Do not let them be passive observers. And I believe that having a good and critical knowledge of history, of philosophy, of language, of areas outside of CM, of the socio-cultural world of China etc can indeed improve the clinical practice of the clinician. Without this knowledge it is all to easy for the clinician to accept as truth that x, y or z does a, b, or c without questioning or understanding why. So, thank you Ken for presenting the question and responding to all of the criticism that came back to you. Yes, it was frustrating initially not to have the specifics of what occured in the wilds of CA but as we created our own discussion perhaps it didn't matter - anyway, I have enjoyed it! Marnae At 08:48 PM 10/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Marnae, thank you so much. I have always felt the appendices were critical >in the Web. Thanks for taking the time to provide your critique. > >Julie > >- > " Marnae Ergil " <marnae > >Monday, October 06, 2003 7:39 PM >Re: More discusion on the Web > > > > Julie - errors or incorrect information no - and I don't think I said that > > there were any. However, for example, the book limits itself > > to discussion of the 8 Principles as the primary diagnostic lens through > > which to view a patient - there is little to no mention of the SHL > > or Wen Bing theory. > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 This is the crux of the issue for teachers, Marnae. Thinking back to Ken's original posts on this topic (reexamining the present state of the art of TCM in the West), your thoughts here gave me some fuel. For me, as a professor/teacher the last 14 years, the big issue about the profession is that the 'required texts' of the state and national boards and institutions help create the illusion that all the required knowledge is in a handful of texts, even though the knowledge base has expanded beyond these texts for several years now. The questions are based largely on these books, and are multiple choice. Many students and graduates have complained to me that there were often more than one correct answer on these tests, and I'd have to agree. The omission of the Wiseman dictionary, Wiseman terminology-based textbooks from Paradigm Press and Blue Poppy texts as source material for licensing exams has been a major blemish on the profession for many years now. There really is no excuse for it. So, the way the academic institutions , licensing exams and acupuncture boards are set up give the illusion of a finite vocational field, with a limited and arbitrary knowledge base that already seems to be set in stone. It certainly doesn't allow for creativity or openness to other points of view. My own teaching style has always been to challenge, question, and open up as many fields of inquiry as are possible. Some students appreciate this, others have seen it as a distraction on the way to getting their piece of paper. On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Marnae Ergil wrote: > the most important thing to do is to keep writing > and keep teaching. But do it well - make our students into critical > readers and thinkers who do not simply accept what is given to them at > face > value but will actually read further and question their teachers. > This is > something that we must do - once we have given our students the > fundamentals and they have passed through the rigors of all of the > memorization that must be done - and even while we are doing this - get > them thinking and asking and writing and reading. Do not let them be > passive observers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Hi Julie Would you be willing to give us on the list or me privately, more insight in the list of 30 books you recommend to your students? Recognising that curriculum of my course is not yet providing all the subjects I would like to study in TCM, I am always on the lookout for good textbooks which could fill the gaps. Thank you Alwin , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my students > a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman Practical > Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple introduction, and > tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts to get a > good foundation., including the Fundamentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 At 02:46 PM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Marnae, > >He raised this challenge two or three times. Among >the people in the room were myself, Joe Helms, >Harriet and Efrem, and we've all written books >about " Chinese medicine " and Paul was very >directly and very clearly asking us what we >are going to do about our own representations >to the public on the subject. > >Are we going to bring our expressions of and >about the subject into line with what we were >coming to see as a more accurate picture of >its character, nature, history, etc. Or would be >satisfied to continually ratify the status quo >that is represented in the bulk of extant English >literature, particulary those texts that are the >cornerstones of both instruction/examination >as well as the public's impression of what >Chinese medicine is all about. > >This is what Paul wanted and I believe still >wants to know. OK - So Ken, now you have posed the challenge to us and many of us have responded with some thoughts. But we haven't really heard your thoughts on what YOU are going to do - as an author and an editor you hold a very important position in defining the field. What specifics came to you about what you can do? >I have a deep respect for him, and his question >touched me deeply, as I think I've made more >or less obvious over the past few weeks while >we've been talking about it. > >I'll tell you a little story that might help everyone >understand my own concerns. > >A couple of years ago I was visiting the Unschulds >in their home in Munich. One evening we were >sitting in the living room and Paul was thumbing >through the German edition of Who Can Ride the Dragon? > >He quipped that he saw no Unschuld references >in the bibliography, and I replied that it was a >darn good thing I'd never read his work before >I wrote that book...or I wouldn't have bothered. > >Ulricke reprimanded both of us, protesting that >she liked WCRD and thought it was a good addition >to the literature, once again proving something >that I've felt all my life: women are more sensible >than men. > >Paul's concerns remain important nonetheless. > >I'll be quite interested to learn what you >make of my take on Web. It is, no doubt, >far less sensible than yours. But I think >we've both focused on the same or similar >aspects of the book to criticize. > >We can take it up after you see what I've >got to say. I look forward to seeing it! >Ken marnae > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 , " kenrose2008 " <kenrose2008> wrote: > I'm all in favor of some sort of commission, > I think that's what I said at the very beginning. >>> Ken: Since many of us are teachers, what about a teacher's association--- what better vantage to influence public and student opinion, curriculum, and publishing standards? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 , " kenrose2008 " wrote: > I take responsibility for the demise of > the journal, because I have often used > it as a place to forward what are, admittedly > unpopular to highly unpopular topics such > as the ones we're now talking about. >>> Ken: Even while not always agreeing with some of the opinions you published, I think you should be congradulated for putting out an intellectually important journal---irrespective of its business success and your publisher's lack of imagination. Most literature simply reiterates the rudimentary TCM ideas and procedures. The fault is with the professionals in this field for not recognizing the significance of the material. Being at the cutting edge of this profession, unfortunately, is not always rewarded. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 In a message dated 10/7/03 9:38:35 PM, marnae writes: > Jim - there have been many attempts to start a teachers association - none > too successful - the last was spearheaded by Stuart Watts - perhaps it > still exists and couuld use an infusion of new qi. > > Marnae > Yes. Actually, AAOM supported Stuart and would stilllike to work to establish a teachers association to provide a place where teachers might work to establish consistency and enhance the quality of our education. Actually, I think that it is one of the jobs of the Accreditation comission to stimulate the colleges to support this process so that there can be greater interaction between professors. We are growing up as a profession, so I think the time is ripe to make something like this work. David Molony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 I also want to offer Ken kudos for this journal, of which I was an editor, and reviewed many articles. The journal was consistently high quality and provocative, thanks to Ken. The problem was getting connections with schools and other institutions to circulate the journal more widely. Too few people knew about the CAOM. On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 02:31 PM, James Ramholz wrote: > , " kenrose2008 " wrote: >> I take responsibility for the demise of >> the journal, because I have often used >> it as a place to forward what are, admittedly >> unpopular to highly unpopular topics such >> as the ones we're now talking about. >>> > > > > Ken: > > Even while not always agreeing with some of the opinions you > published, I think you should be congradulated for putting out an > intellectually important journal---irrespective of its business > success and your publisher's lack of imagination. Most literature > simply reiterates the rudimentary TCM ideas and procedures. > > The fault is with the professionals in this field for not > recognizing the significance of the material. Being at the cutting > edge of this profession, unfortunately, is not always rewarded. > > > > Jim Ramholz > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Yes! Dave, Marnae and Jim.... Stuart did a lot of work toward a faculty organization. Let's get him in and pull something together - even though a unified teacher scenario petrifies Deans. This could be the time. Todd also made an attempt . Let's join these forces at each and every organizational meeting from CSOMA to AAOM to AOMA to CHA... and anywhere teachers of OM occur. This is a great spot or maybe an offshoot listserver...but Todd..that would be your call once such discourse should become non-herb relevant. Or - maybe it is time to review the mission of this list since it seems to have changed. Will > > > Jim - there have been many attempts to start a teachers association - none > > too successful - the last was spearheaded by Stuart Watts - perhaps it > > still exists and couuld use an infusion of new qi. > > > > Marnae > > > > Yes. Actually, AAOM supported Stuart and would stilllike to work to > establish > a teachers association to provide a place where teachers might work to > establish consistency and enhance the quality of our education. Actually, I > think > that it is one of the jobs of the Accreditation comission to stimulate the > colleges to support this process so that there can be greater interaction > between > professors. We are growing up as a profession, so I think the time is ripe > to > make something like this work. > David Molony William R. Morris, OMD Secretary, AAOM Academic Dean Emperor's College of TOM 310-453-8383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Jim - there have been many attempts to start a teachers association - none too successful - the last was spearheaded by Stuart Watts - perhaps it still exists and couuld use an infusion of new qi. Marnae At 09:21 PM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote: > , " kenrose2008 " ><kenrose2008> wrote: > > I'm all in favor of some sort of commission, > > I think that's what I said at the very beginning. >>> > > > > > >Ken: > >Since many of us are teachers, what about a teacher's association--- >what better vantage to influence public and student opinion, >curriculum, and publishing standards? > > >Jim Ramholz > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Ken - I am sorry to see the end of the journal. I understand the problem - we experienced some of the same issues when Kevin was editing the journal - but Churchill (with Inta's insistence) remained supportive of the start up. I'm sorry they couldn't maintain it. Marnae At 09:31 PM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote: > , " kenrose2008 " wrote: > > I take responsibility for the demise of > > the journal, because I have often used > > it as a place to forward what are, admittedly > > unpopular to highly unpopular topics such > > as the ones we're now talking about. >>> > > > >Ken: > >Even while not always agreeing with some of the opinions you >published, I think you should be congradulated for putting out an >intellectually important journal---irrespective of its business >success and your publisher's lack of imagination. Most literature >simply reiterates the rudimentary TCM ideas and procedures. > >The fault is with the professionals in this field for not >recognizing the significance of the material. Being at the cutting >edge of this profession, unfortunately, is not always rewarded. > > > >Jim Ramholz > > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 - " Alwin van Egmond " < Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:32 AM Re: More discusion on the Web > Hi Julie > > Would you be willing to give us on the list or me privately, more > insight in the list of 30 books you recommend to your students? Alwin, Yes, I would be happy to. I will forward it in the next day or two. Keep in mind that I teach herbs, so my list is geared toward that, and I also warn the members that my list is accompanied by my own opinions of the books, so I hope I don't offend anyone. Most of the books on my list have been discussed in this forum. Till tomorrow then. Julie Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 , Marnae Ergil wrote: > Jim - there have been many attempts to start a teachers association - none too successful - the last was spearheaded by Stuart Watts - perhaps it still exists and couuld use an infusion of new qi. >>> Marnae: Why do you think these associations fail? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 , WMorris116@A... wrote: > even though a unified teacher scenario petrifies Deans.>>> That's a good thing isn't it? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Now boys, don't exagerate! I was a dean and would welcome a unified teacher association. It could only result in better communication, which in some cases, I hate to say, was sorely lacking. Julie - " James Ramholz " <jramholz Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:30 PM Re: More discusion on the Web > , WMorris116@A... wrote: > > even though a unified teacher scenario petrifies Deans.>>> > > > That's a good thing isn't it? > > > Jim Ramholz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 We had a teacher's meeting at the CHA conference last year. A small beginning, and one I found fruitful. On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 10:48 PM, Julie Chambers wrote: > Now boys, don't exagerate! I was a dean and would welcome a unified > teacher > association. It could only result in better communication, which in > some > cases, I hate to say, was sorely lacking. > > Julie > - > " James Ramholz " <jramholz > > Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:30 PM > Re: More discusion on the Web > > >> , WMorris116@A... wrote: >>> even though a unified teacher scenario petrifies Deans.>>> >> >> >> That's a good thing isn't it? >> >> >> Jim Ramholz >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Ken Rose wrote: > Thanks for the kind words. I obviously > intend to continue to pursue certain > points, and we'll see what forms they > take. I don't want to dismiss out of hand > too hastily the economic failure of the > journal, as I believe it is a good reflection > of the value structure of the profession. >>> I think it is a mistake to think that economic failure is a good reflection of the value structure of the profession. We can probably go back through history and find many who attempted innovations but died broke. > But it also suggests that in > the most basic way, people really aren't > interested in this stuff. Perhaps for now. You're basing an opinion on least interesting people. In college during the 70s, I remember reading Heidegger and deconstructionists (among others) who didn't have many readers or were given much interest in their work. Then, twenty years later, they became the mainstream thinkers. > And if you believe Alon and others, yourself > included, they are altogether corrrect > in placing little to no value on matters > that can be dismissed as " academic " in > nature and of no value to the clinical > realities of professional practice.>>> It's not that I'm not interested in academic matters. My point is that they cannot be discussed without regard to clinical application. If they are, the classics become just another source of high order gossip. Then the arguments assume the form of 'angels dancing on the head of a pin.' I believe the classics were designed to be practical, not just academic, because I can apply many of their ideas as tools for pulse diagnosis and my own practice. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Z'ev, Here comes a string of questions: Was there any minutes? Any discussion of bylaws development?...and how about strategies for inclusion of the rest of the faculty members? And - how was the diversity and cultural representation? Will > We had a teacher's meeting at the CHA conference last year. A small > beginning, and one I found fruitful. > > William R. Morris, OMD Secretary, AAOM Academic Dean Emperor's College of TOM 310-453-8383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 In a message dated 10/8/2003 7:19:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kenrose2008 writes: > What' s the change? > > I don't see any change. We're talking about > the same range of topics now that we have > been throughout the three years that I've > been taking part, at least. > > I was just thinking this morning what a > wonderful resource this list is, and it > seems to me that it is more or less its > current constitution that makes it so Ken - the change is from a narrow topical focus of herbs to a wide range of philosophical, diagnostic, and other issues not limited by the moniker 'herbs.' Best regards - Will William R. Morris, OMD Secretary, AAOM Academic Dean Emperor's College of TOM 310-453-8383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Marnae - It's good to know why things fail. I know Stuart was very dissapointed about his teacher organization and the lack of support coming fom the Council of Colleges. But - the groundwork is there. An infusion of Qi and cash might do the trick. Will > > Several reasons why they fail - > > There is often a misconception about them - that they are a union > and this makes some of the schools uncomfortable > > The meetings are usually held in conjunction with the national > meetings - and unfortunately not a lot of teachers get to attend those - > because they are teaching. > > Financial support - needs to come from somewhere - both for > faculty to attend them and for the organization to continue to exist. > > Faculty are busy. They are not always sure what such an > association is really for and is this how they want to spend their time? > > I attending a few meetings - one was very good - a discussion of > textbooks - the others did not seem to have a clear focus. > > The organization Stuart started I believe still exists. Perhaps > with new members/new blood it could be rejuvenated. It takes qi! > William R. Morris, OMD Secretary, AAOM Academic Dean Emperor's College of TOM 310-453-8383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Marnae- A school representative at a national meeting would be good. We can get space at no cost. If the Colleges funded this representative it becomes possible. That's a big if; it is where the problems occurred in Stuart's program. Another issue for this type of program is the faculty governance structures that would dutifully elect a representative are missing in many institutions. Will > Agreed! Not just ACAOM but also the schools need to support it - faculty > need to be given the time to attend the conferences (perhaps even have some > money to attend from their institution) and support in covering their > classes etc. Perhaps a set up where there was a least one representative > from each school who attended and reported back? William R. Morris, OMD Secretary, AAOM Academic Dean Emperor's College of TOM 310-453-8383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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