Chinese Textbooks vs Western Textbooks

[Guest guest]

Hi all

 

I notice that in the discussion about the 'quality' and 'trueness' of

the textbooks all the books refered to are books from

american/western writers.

 

Would you also extend the critisism to the books by chinese autors or

do we expect them to be more true to the roots?

 

To name a few books from chinese autors from the list of required &

recommended books from my study:

- Cheng Xinnong: Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion

- State Standard of PRC: The Location of Acupoints

- Dong Z.L.: One Hundred Famous & Effective Prescriptions of Ancient

and Modern Times

- Lu Yubin: Pulse Diagnosis

- Yueng Him-che: Medicinal Herbs / Medicinal Formulas

- Deng Tietao: Practical Diagnosis in TCM

 

Alwin

 

, Julie Chambers <info@j...>

wrote:

> I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my

students

> a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman

Practical

> Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple

introduction, and

> tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts

to get a

> good foundation., including the Fundamentals.

[Guest guest]

Alwin - this is an interesting question - but the list of books you give

even more so - Let's look at each one separately.

 

CAM: CAM is not " by " any one person. It is a compilation. It is

currently in its 3rd or 4th revision, depending upon when you date the

first edition from. It is very error prone, it is extremely simplified and

really is useful only as a point location text - although there are now

several books that are more useful (deadman, ellis & wiseman). It is an

example of a book that remains in school curriculums because of the NCCAOM

test. It has always been the standard that the NCCAOM used for point

location. In this regard, they have advanced - they now also have Deadman

on their book list, but they do not point functions from FCA which I think

is mistake. When teaching points I still refer to this text, because I

want students to know about it and to be familiar with its point

descriptions but I do not use it for anything else. Not for channel

pathways, not for theoretical discussions - nothing. This is a book that

was created in China for use in the WHO training programs - programs that

initially were designed for the western health care professional (primarily

MD's) to be able to learn acupuncture in a very brief time without really

learning or understanding theory or diagnostics. So, it is not a text that

is intended for the Chinese and as such it was felt that it could and

should be greatly simplified. IMO it is unfortunate that we have become

so dependent upon it here. As long we continue to require substandard

texts like this one, someone will continue to produce them and to make a

lot of money from them. IMO this book has been superseded by many.

 

State Standard: Again, useful only as a precis of point location. Not good

for much else and again, created for the foreigner, not for the Chinese.

 

100 Famous: pretty useless as well and again created for the foreigner to

be able to stick needles in folks without really thinking about

diagnostics, pattern differentiation etc.

 

Lu Yubin/ Pulse: I am less familiar with this one - can't really comment.

 

Yeung: a good book. One of the earliest english language materia

medica/formulas. Pretty much superseded by Bensky.

 

Important to note: all of the above books were written FIRST in english,

not in Chinese and were written for an English speaking audience. One of

the things that one learns very quickly when one is in China is that there

is a large population of practitioners of CM who do not really believe that

the foreigner can truly learn CM (this is not true of all, but I certainly

heard expressed many, many times by several of my teachers). If one can

read CHinese, one has a better chance (I have to agree with this but this

is not me speaking, it is many Chinese practitioners), but if one is not

born and bred Chinese, then one will have more difficulty. Well, clearly

there is a cultural bias going on here - there are some elements of truth

to this, but I cannot buy it wholesale. So, as a result of this fairly

widespread feeling, many of the books that are published for the English

speaking audience are simplified. The books that we are putting out

ourselves do not have that bias and so tend to be more thorough.

 

The last book on your list is different (again as the translator of the

book I have a certain bias here but...)This is a book that was written in

Chinese for Chinese students. Its aim was not to train the

foreigner. Therefore, it is much more detailed - in contains information

that the 1styear student cannot even begin to grasp. It merits reading and

re-reading. But, it is a modern textbook, not classical and as such it is

very formulaic. As Ted pointed out in his foreward " it is important

however that the richness and precision of details appearing in this volume

do not make students lose sight of the fact that, in Chinese medicine,

diagnosis does not mean a search for distinct ontological

entities. Diagnosis is not meant to have the flavor of a precise computer

readout. Rather it has the intention of orientation; it is meant to be a

flexible clinical perspective. " So, while this book is extremely useful to

us because of its precision and detail, again, it is easy for the novice to

use it as a guidebook - it doesn't have the answers, it has the methods to

get you to the answers (we hope).

 

So, do we extend the criticism to books by Chinese authors? Yes, I

do. Does everyone? No. I don't think so. But again, each book must be

contextualized. Where did it come from, who wrote it and why?

 

Marnae

 

At 07:27 AM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi all

>

>I notice that in the discussion about the 'quality' and 'trueness' of

>the textbooks all the books refered to are books from

>american/western writers.

>

>Would you also extend the critisism to the books by chinese autors or

>do we expect them to be more true to the roots?

>

>To name a few books from chinese autors from the list of required &

>recommended books from my study:

>- Cheng Xinnong: Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion

>- State Standard of PRC: The Location of Acupoints

>- Dong Z.L.: One Hundred Famous & Effective Prescriptions of Ancient

>and Modern Times

>- Lu Yubin: Pulse Diagnosis

>- Yueng Him-che: Medicinal Herbs / Medicinal Formulas

>- Deng Tietao: Practical Diagnosis in TCM

>

>Alwin

>

> , Julie Chambers <info@j...>

>wrote:

> > I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my

>students

> > a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman

>Practical

> > Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple

>introduction, and

> > tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts

>to get a

> > good foundation., including the Fundamentals.

>

>

>

>

>

>Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

>practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics

>specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of

>professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Marnea

 

Thank you for your elaborate answer.

 

It doesn't make me smile though ;-).

 

My school (one of only two accredited schools in the Netherlands) is

founded and run by Chinese doctors from the main TCM Universities in

the PRC. Which could explain their bias to the Chinese autors. The

Bensky, Deadman and Jeremy Ross books are on the required/recommended

booklist as well though.

 

Still I would like to know which books are used or recommended by the

various tutors and professors on this list teaching TCM in the USA.

 

Alwin

[acridir]

Wow, Marnae, i never expected to find you here. Today must be my lucky day.

i bought the book you translated, and i also want to buy the Chinese version of the book.

 

Can you kindly give me the book title in Chinese & the name of the Chinese publisher?

 

i looked through your translation, but cannot find the information in the book.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Alwin - this is an interesting question - but the list of books you give

even more so - Let's look at each one separately.

 

CAM: CAM is not " by " any one person. It is a compilation. It is

currently in its 3rd or 4th revision, depending upon when you date the

first edition from. It is very error prone, it is extremely simplified and

really is useful only as a point location text - although there are now

several books that are more useful (deadman, ellis & wiseman). It is an

example of a book that remains in school curriculums because of the NCCAOM

test. It has always been the standard that the NCCAOM used for point

location. In this regard, they have advanced - they now also have Deadman

on their book list, but they do not point functions from FCA which I think

is mistake. When teaching points I still refer to this text, because I

want students to know about it and to be familiar with its point

descriptions but I do not use it for anything else. Not for channel

pathways, not for theoretical discussions - nothing. This is a book that

was created in China for use in the WHO training programs - programs that

initially were designed for the western health care professional (primarily

MD's) to be able to learn acupuncture in a very brief time without really

learning or understanding theory or diagnostics. So, it is not a text that

is intended for the Chinese and as such it was felt that it could and

should be greatly simplified. IMO it is unfortunate that we have become

so dependent upon it here. As long we continue to require substandard

texts like this one, someone will continue to produce them and to make a

lot of money from them. IMO this book has been superseded by many.

 

State Standard: Again, useful only as a precis of point location. Not good

for much else and again, created for the foreigner, not for the Chinese.

 

100 Famous: pretty useless as well and again created for the foreigner to

be able to stick needles in folks without really thinking about

diagnostics, pattern differentiation etc.

 

Lu Yubin/ Pulse: I am less familiar with this one - can't really comment.

 

Yeung: a good book. One of the earliest english language materia

medica/formulas. Pretty much superseded by Bensky.

 

Important to note: all of the above books were written FIRST in english,

not in Chinese and were written for an English speaking audience. One of

the things that one learns very quickly when one is in China is that there

is a large population of practitioners of CM who do not really believe that

the foreigner can truly learn CM (this is not true of all, but I certainly

heard expressed many, many times by several of my teachers). If one can

read CHinese, one has a better chance (I have to agree with this but this

is not me speaking, it is many Chinese practitioners), but if one is not

born and bred Chinese, then one will have more difficulty. Well, clearly

there is a cultural bias going on here - there are some elements of truth

to this, but I cannot buy it wholesale. So, as a result of this fairly

widespread feeling, many of the books that are published for the English

speaking audience are simplified. The books that we are putting out

ourselves do not have that bias and so tend to be more thorough.

 

The last book on your list is different (again as the translator of the

book I have a certain bias here but...)This is a book that was written in

Chinese for Chinese students. Its aim was not to train the

foreigner. Therefore, it is much more detailed - in contains information

that the 1styear student cannot even begin to grasp. It merits reading and

re-reading. But, it is a modern textbook, not classical and as such it is

very formulaic. As Ted pointed out in his foreward " it is important

however that the richness and precision of details appearing in this volume

do not make students lose sight of the fact that, in Chinese medicine,

diagnosis does not mean a search for distinct ontological

entities. Diagnosis is not meant to have the flavor of a precise computer

readout. Rather it has the intention of orientation; it is meant to be a

flexible clinical perspective. " So, while this book is extremely useful to

us because of its precision and detail, again, it is easy for the novice to

use it as a guidebook - it doesn't have the answers, it has the methods to

get you to the answers (we hope).

 

So, do we extend the criticism to books by Chinese authors? Yes, I

do. Does everyone? No. I don't think so. But again, each book must be

contextualized. Where did it come from, who wrote it and why?

 

Marnae

 

At 07:27 AM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi all

>

>I notice that in the discussion about the 'quality' and 'trueness' of

>the textbooks all the books refered to are books from

>american/western writers.

>

>Would you also extend the critisism to the books by chinese autors or

>do we expect them to be more true to the roots?

>

>To name a few books from chinese autors from the list of required &

>recommended books from my study:

>- Cheng Xinnong: Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion

>- State Standard of PRC: The Location of Acupoints

>- Dong Z.L.: One Hundred Famous & Effective Prescriptions of Ancient

>and Modern Times

>- Lu Yubin: Pulse Diagnosis

>- Yueng Him-che: Medicinal Herbs / Medicinal Formulas

>- Deng Tietao: Practical Diagnosis in TCM

>

>Alwin

>

>, Julie Chambers <info@j...>

>wrote:

> > I never meant I would use the Web as a stand-alone text! I give my

>students

> > a list of 30 books for the first year, including the Wiseman

>Practical

> > Dictionary. I ask my students to read the Web as a simple

>introduction, and

> > tell them we must read more broadly and deeply in many other texts

>to get a

> > good foundation., including the Fundamentals.

>

>

>

>

>

>Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

>practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics

>specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of

>professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>