Paul Unschuld's unanswerable question

[Guest guest]

>It is pluralistic and heterogenous

>It is incoherent

>It is not scientific in any narrow, modern Western cultural sense

>It is associated with ways of thinking and approaching reality which

>are different from the modern Western worldview

--

 

So, the next time a patient asks me about Chinese medicine, this is

what I should say to them?!

 

Rory

 

Rory,

When a patient says 'Doctor, how does it work?' one can answer:

 

'Firstly, I've got a diploma, not a doctorate, and it may not even be

a state-validated diploma, secondly, what paradigm do you want me to

refer to when responding to the word 'how', thirdly we can't specify

what 'it' is anyway, fourthly we don't even know from a research

perspective whether it does work.'

[Guest guest]

Words that stir new thoughts and feelings, and bring one to a more

clear sense of reality are often harsh to the heart and ear, but awaken

creativity, freedom and openness in their wake.

 

We grow by questioning our motives and concepts constantly. " He who is

not busy being born is busy dying. "

 

Paul Unschuld is a revolutionary.

 

 

On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 08:33 AM, kenrose2008 wrote:

 

> In the wake of that little bit of subversion,

> his phone was ringing off the hook with

> invitations from other doctor groups in

> Germany, who find his sometimes hard

> to swallow medicine extraordinarily

> therapeutic.

>

> Ken

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " "

<zrosenbe@s...> wrote:

> Guys, there is a very good article about Dale Pendell, author of

> 'Parmako/Dynamis' and 'Pharmaco/Poeia' in today's Los Angeles

Times

> Magazine. I'd almost forgotten that there are still poets among

us,

> nonetheless poets of medicines from the earth and laboratory!

 

 

And what poetry it is!

Dale Pendell is a Grand Sire of pharmako-poetics. my early

interest in herbalism and ethnobotany, eventually led me to the grace

of reading such a writer. Pharmako-Poeia is strange circus of

literary delights and green musing. For a " dark learning "

perspective on man and plants, there's nothing quite like it. He is

certainly a contemporary alchemist and word weaver as well.

 

 

 

Read

> these books, they are a refreshing breath of clean mountain air

that

> blends the rational and the suprarational!

 

just wait to the release of Pharmako/Gnosis. It's sure to

quiver the soul in strange imaginings.

matt

[Guest guest]

I'm looking forward to it.

 

 

On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 08:05 PM, facteau8 wrote:

 

> just wait to the release of Pharmako/Gnosis. It's sure to

> quiver the soul in strange imaginings.

> matt

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " " wrote:

> Jim,

> Good question, but don't you think the average person in this

country thinks that Western medicine is coherent and scientific? >>>

 

 

Z'ev:

 

No doubt that they do, but I was hoping E could provide some more

insight.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel wrote: My personal sense then is that Western science's limitations are

precisely its coherence and rationality ... its unwillingness to be embarrassed

by

a lack of evidence despite clear demonstrations of efficacy. Western science

asks, What's the mechanism? To which I say, pour me another shot of that mythos,

Barkeep. Give me the good stuff ...

 

Along wrote: >>>>>>>Efficacy is excepted even when mechanism is not known. Most

drugs are still used even though mechanisms are unknown. The put down the search

for understanding is the same as saying there is not

need to study CM theory. This is another useless argument

alon

 

Thanks, Alon. My commentary was neither an argument for nor an argument against

anything. Jim Ramholz asked for my perspective regarding America's view of

Western science and its coherence. My response was as a scientist and a member

of the public. We lack mythos. Some people might see this as irrelevant. I do

not. In fact I view mythos as a higher perspective than Western science.

Mythos guides a person's developmental pathway. It is essential for carrying

out one's life. Relating to the subject of this thread, it appears Unschuld

also sees mythos as a factor that brings Americans to CM though not in those

words nor is it clear that he respects mythos as I do. Oddly, we scientists do

not seem to be able to entertain multiple facets of a problem very well.

Scientists who are " generalists " rather than " specialists " are often shunned.

Our scientific perspectives as well as our technology at least in biological

sciences tends to be rather myopic. I've come to an appreciation of CM for the

very fact of its investment in what Westerners might call myth. It also

includes internal cultivation ... or at least the option for it, whether you

chose it or not. We Western scientists do not have this. While some are happy

for this to be so, I am happier to find perspectives that include mythos and

internal cultivations.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" " wrote:

> Jim, Good question, but don't you think the average person in this country

thinks that Western medicine is coherent and scientific? >>>

 

Z'ev:

 

No doubt that they do, but I was hoping E could provide some more

insight.

 

Jim Ramholz

 

Jim and Z'ev,

 

I'm honored that you feel I might have insight into how the average person in

the country feels about science. I do have contact with hundreds of students

per year coming into my various sections and sessions of human anatomy and

physiology. While a few avidly enjoy the discipline of coherence, most feel

somewhat challenged or even beaten by it. All, however, expect it. So this may

answer your question. Also almost to a person, they all seem nourished by my

forays into both practical and philosophical notions of what we are studying. I

even present element of ethics and myth though not always in those words. So I

present such things as an occasional oasis of nourishment and recuperation. It

makes the didactic learning seem more relevant and useful.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel

I was only commenting on the need to search for a mechanism in

biomed. I agree with all your other comments on the strenth on CM

Alon