Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Ken - At 05:54 PM 10/24/2003 +0000, you wrote: >Marnae, > >In case you're wondering why this is addressed to >you, it's because it is all your fault. In fact, >I think I'm channeling you now. Please - tell me what I'm saying!! >This apparently >unbelievable situation seems to have arisen >as a result of your having hurled the most >apt epithet yet. > >I am a hypocrite, in precisely the sense >that Baudelaire intended me to be when >he addressed his readers as such and >concluded that we are his counterpart, >his brothers. (He wasn't hip to pc gender >issues or to the simple obvious fact >that women might rankle at being suddenly >brothers. But then no one is perfect, >not even Baudelaire.) > >So if anybody wants to complain, address >your complaints to Marnae. Hey wait a minute!! OK, if you want to use the term to define yourself that's fine, but, as I said earlier, its not you, its the discussion. And, you responded to some of my questions in later posts, so maybe you were channeling me. Our close relationships to people in the field is exactly why I think this has to be a project that involves several people. Or, someone could just do a Flexner report on the state of the written word in Chinese medicine and throw the whole field into a tizzy based on the words on one person. But, once again it comes down to money. Someone needs to fund the project so that those of us who have to work for a living will have the time to devote to it. >The sun on thunder mountain was so >intense this morning that it made >me think of these questions. > >Should Thunder Mountain be capitalized? > >Does it matter that we know where people >are at? Does it matter that we know that >we usually know thunder mountain by its >Pomo name, Sonoma? > >You can ignore all these questions, and >if someone wants to answer, fine. I'm >tired of saying that what words mean >matters. Ken - yes, what words mean matters. I agree. So, it comes back to my earlier question - why shouldn't BHAE or other texts be held to the same standard that you hold TK and DB? Or maybe even a higher standard since BHAE is a later text than the Web. I know you have said that you think it should but that you don't think that you can write the review. Fair enough, but your statement in an earlier post that because it is openly and honestly their creative work does not, IMO, sound like you believe that it should be held to the same standard. >But here's another question, and I hope >pepole will think about it carefully. > >Because you can find a point on a >map or chart, does that mean you can >be there? Can you be on thunder mountain >if you don't know where it is? The question applies directly to acup points. No, finding a point on a chart is not the same as finding it on a body and finding it on a body is not the same as accessing the qi of the point. But, you can't get to the third step without the 1st two. One needs the fundamentals, one needs to go through the processes in order to reach the goal - and then, when one has reached it over and over again by going through the process, the ritual etc., then, if one wants, one can bypass the first two steps and get there more directly. But only if you practice!!!!! >Why didn't I include H & E? > >Because I have grown to love them. Fair enough - they are easy to love. But should that make them less available critique. I generally receive the best critique of my work from the person I love the best and who loves me. We hold no punches because we know that the critique is meant to improve the work not to belittle. I tell all of my students that when the write they must have someone who will be ruthless about their work read it before they give it to me (most don't but those who do benefit). The initial reaction may that the reader was overly harsh, but the end result is much better. Thus the love many people feel for their editors, and their unwillingness to work with new editors after they have already established a relationship. So, perhaps, your critique of BHAE would be more honest, more beneficial than anyone else's who does not have the relation to H & E that you have. >But please take note that I met >them and Nigel at the same moment >in time and was attracted to know >all of them primarily by the fact >that they found themselves engaged >in just the sort of process that >I think needs to unfold in our >profession. So I ruthlessly took >advantage of the situation to >get to know them all and become >close enough to take part in >intimate discussions about the >very matters that we are still >discussing today. I fell in love >with all of them by getting them >embroiled in a huge battle of words. > >I tried to do the same thing with >Dan Bensky, but he declined my >invitation to tell us what he >meant in his comments about >translation standards. > >It may interest people to know >why and how I came to formulate >the questions that I did about >the Macau Institute of Chinese >Medicine and the doctorate/diploma >that Bensky and Kaptchuk received >there. > >When I took over CAOM from Kevin, >one of the first facts that struck >me in the face was that a peer review >journal requires a definition of the >word " peer " . What is a peer in Chinese >medicine? > >Who are we? in other words. > >When Dan told me that he would be submitting >an article, the one submission that I >miss the most, never having received it, >I realized that I had always wondered >about the Macau Institute of Chinese >Medicine. > >And I realized that when I published his >article, I would have to ensure that I >could report, if only implicitly, to my >readers that the contents of the article >had been reviewed by a panel of Dan's >peers. > >Peers share certain values and various >tangible and intangible resources, standards, >and so on. In our field these things have >never really been defined, as we have favored >a new age alternative approach that holds that >standardization is creepy and not cool. > >I started to ask people around me what >the Macau Institute of >was and was all about, and in many months >of checking, I could not find a single >human being who had ever heard of it. >This included several long time notable >individuals in both Hong Kong and Macau. > >When a check with the education and hitorical >archives folks in Macau turned up no single >mention of it, I grew concerned but as >Dan never submitted his piece, I was spared >having to do anything about these questions. > >I never approached Ted, frankly and most >utterly hypocritcially, because I didn't >know what to do about these matters. > >It wasn't until the aftermath of the week with Unschuld >that I realized that I had silenced myself >out of utterly selfish and, yes, hypocritical >concerns. The day I posted my response >to Julie's pressing me for details >about Web I woke with the title of a book >in mind by Richard Feynmann, What Do >You Care What Other People Think? > >I think the true hypocrisy of writers is >that we use words any old way we please. >I don't really agree with anybody. Not >Nigel. Not Paul. Not H & E. No one. > >I don't seem to be built for agreement >and coherent organization of logical >argumets. I am much happier being a >hypocrite. > >And you noticed it and brought it to my >attention. So thank you. Well, you're welcome. Marnae >Ken > > > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Marnae, Whatever I said that left you with the impression that I think H & E should be excluded from the kind of scrutiny I have suggested, let me know formally and officialy cancel, withdraw, and otherwise retract and delete it. I spoke to Harriet on the phone this morning and put her on notice that I said they should be drawn and quartered and that they are dangerous individuals. We shared a good laugh and went on to the other earth shattering matters that currently rest upon our shoulders. But please believe me when I say that I think every book that has had any influence on the way the subject is constructed, considered, conceived of and practiced should be the subject of a close review. Yes it comes down to money. Everything comes down to money all the time. We all work for a living. Which is why I have included the call for financial disclosure as well, by which a simple disclosure of the network of financial relations and obligations. I think it's best that we confront all of these realities openly and transparently as possible so that the generation and propagation of ideas along channels that course with money can be understood. Another beautiful day on Thunder Mountain. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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