Sputum question -- one more word

[Guest guest]

> And once again we come back to the original question. Is thick, white

sputum heat or

> not. The Deng text says thick and yellow for heat- thin and white for

cold. Do we split

> the difference? Not very much heat? Or a mixed cold and heat? If we don't

have other

> signs, which is it? Having no other signs is surely just a text book

exercise so I think

> the answer is that thick white can but not necessarily be heat. Shall we

move

> on?

> doug

 

Um...could I just say one more thing? Cold and heat are on a continuum...not

just one or the other. As the cold turns to heat, the sputum can turn from

thin and clear to thicker and whiter (more opaque) and then continue turning

from white to creamy and then to yellow, all the while turning thicker and

drier.

 

So thick and white could be demonstrating heat in a person who previously

had thin and clear.

 

Julie

[Guest guest]

At 10:02 PM -0700 11/4/03, Julie Chambers wrote:

>Um...could I just say one more thing? Cold and heat are on a continuum...not

>just one or the other. As the cold turns to heat, the sputum can turn from

>thin and clear to thicker and whiter (more opaque) and then continue turning

>from white to creamy and then to yellow, all the while turning thicker and

>drier.

>

>So thick and white could be demonstrating heat in a person who previously

>had thin and clear.

--

Julie,

 

And just to add...heat is one way for sputum to change from thick to

thin, but I believe Jasons's case illustrates another. This patient

has an chronic, progressive disease in which the organs that regulate

fluids (lungs, spleen, kidneys) are deficient and barely able to

function effectively. Under these circumstances, I believe that the

thickness of the phlegm may be due to the chaotic functioning of

these organs, including stagnation of the lung qi, and not

necessarily to heat.

 

Rory

--

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This patient

has an chronic, progressive disease in which the organs that regulate

fluids (lungs, spleen, kidneys) are deficient and barely able to

function effectively. Under these circumstances, I believe that the

thickness of the phlegm may be due to the chaotic functioning of

these organs, including stagnation of the lung qi, and not

necessarily to heat.

>>>As i said one of my teachers used the term old phlegm for this process and

not only in chronic and severe diseases. By the way he has a very strong SH

background

alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 9:58 AM -0600 11/5/03, Alon Marcus wrote:

> >>>As i said one of my teachers used the term old phlegm for this

>process and not only in chronic and severe diseases. By the way he

>has a very strong SH background

--

Alon,

 

Yes, I agree with the idea of old phlegm. The circulation of moisture

in and out of the lung is constant, and their should be no residual

phlegm. In cases where there is repeated illness, and repeated

failure to fully clear the lung following illness, some phlegm starts

to accumulate, probably thin at first. Over time also this leads to

weakening of the organs that regulate fluids, and interferes with the

qi mechanism of the lung, both of which in turn lead to further

accumulation. The body is a warm environment, and simply by sitting

around in the lung, the ambient metabolic heat gradually thickens

phlegm. This is not the same heat as pathogenic heat, and there is no

need to clear it. In fact, giving heat clearing herbs would likely

further injure the patient.

 

Rory

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