Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Dear Jason, Please explain to me the mechanism by which swelling could be manifested as cold. It seems obvious to me to be a representation of damp accumulation. Yehuda On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:55:49 -0800 (PST) Jason Robertson <kentuckyginseng writes: > Alon et al. > > One thing that may be helpful in this inflammation discussion is to > remember that there is an absolutely necessary presence of redness > and a subjective or objective presence of warmth to define a > condition in Chinese as " heat " . As you said Alon, you can't use > western medicine diagnosis-like inflammation- as a place to start a > CM discussion. Of course, if you look at things at a cellular level > you may see signs of changes that indicate infection in situations > that have no outward signs of redness or warmth. In those cases, if > the area is still inflamed, then you might have a case of " swelling " > (zhong) which could involve cold. I think that all of this stays > much clearer if you stick to the Chinese concepts. > > Alternatively, you could go down the path that seems to be > developing here of separating a western term, " inflammation " , into > cold-type and heat-type. > > respectfully, > Jason Robertson > > > > Jason Robertson, L.Ac. > Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi > > Beijing, Peoples Republic of China > > home-86-010-8405-0531 > cell- 86-010-13520155800 > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Yehuda My point is that swelling without redness or signs of heat could involve cold- a lack of transformation by yang qi. Like all diagnoses, it fundamentally comes down to a decision between excess and deficiency (yin/yang). The case of swelling with heat and redness is excess, the case of swelling without heat is (relatively speaking) cold because of a lack of yang qi transforming dampness. I was assuming that dampness was implied in both cases. Sorry for the lack of clarity. respectfully Jason Robertson Jason Robertson, L.Ac. Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi Beijing, Peoples Republic of China home-86-010-8405-0531 cell- 86-010-13520155800 Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 It seems obvious to me to be a representation of damp accumulation. >>>Why is Damp accumulating? alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Very good. So we can agree and add to what was stated before concerning our analysis that we can use our inflammatory signs to determine excess or deficiency as well: red and palpable warmth being heat, pain-stasis and swelling being either excess damp heat or deficient cold damp, depending upon the accompanying symptoms. OK, next question, so does that mean that all cases of inflammation without heat and redness imply yang deficiency? Yehuda Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:10:34 -0800 (PST) Jason Robertson <kentuckyginseng writes: > Yehuda > > My point is that swelling without redness or signs of heat could > involve cold- a lack of transformation by yang qi. Like all > diagnoses, it fundamentally comes down to a decision between excess > and deficiency (yin/yang). The case of swelling with heat and > redness is excess, the case of swelling without heat is (relatively > speaking) cold because of a lack of yang qi transforming dampness. > I was assuming that dampness was implied in both cases. Sorry for > the lack of clarity. > > respectfully > Jason Robertson > > > > Jason Robertson, L.Ac. > Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi > > Beijing, Peoples Republic of China > > home-86-010-8405-0531 > cell- 86-010-13520155800 > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Alon, Are you asking from a Western or a TCM perspective? Yehuda On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:54:28 -0600 " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus writes: > It seems obvious to me to be a representation of damp > accumulation. > >>>Why is Damp accumulating? > alon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Alon, Are you asking from a Western or a TCM perspective? Yehuda >>>From CM, Damp accumulation is just a symptom if one adds cold that is a cause alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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