Research stuff again (was:Correct use of patents)

[Guest guest]

> , " wainwrightchurchill " <

> w.churchill_1-@t...> wrote:

> > does not lend itself to research studies, rather to well

documented

> > case studies.

, " "

wrote:

>

> actually it lends itself to both, IMO...

>....

> group 6 - nothing

 

If the research was for the acupuncturist market, your opinion may

matter, but unfortunately it won't when it goes for cross-

examination by the defense. To have 5 experimental groups and a

control and to have a statistically powerful result would likely

take hundreds of patients. Without patents (legal, not herbal

patents!) on the line, there is little chance of getting the funding

needed to get the data collected and patients recruited. Western

drug / treatment research is conducted with consortiums of many

hosptial groups throughout the US with access to millions of

patients.

 

I believe it would be possible to make a good study with less

expenditure where you have a definte diagnosis / etiology, ie, for

menopause, Fevers d/t Liver Yang Rising with Kidney Yin Xu. Even

then, you would have to use the same treatment for everyone in that

treatment group, or else you are just doing a case study, which

doesn't seem to get much attention these days. It's tough to do!

I've been to battle with my wife who is a western trained research

psychologist on how to do this for our profession - and it just

ain't easy to do, especially without funding. From a treatment

standpoint, I love case studies, and they're just fine for getting a

sense of direction of where to go.

 

It will be interesting to see what direction the grants just issued

to the University of Pittsburgh take.

Geoff

[Guest guest]

, " yingsuke2002 "

<yingsuke2002> wrote:

 

>

> If the research was for the acupuncturist market, your opinion may

> matter, but unfortunately it won't when it goes for cross-

> examination by the defense. To have 5 experimental groups and a

> control and to have a statistically powerful result would likely

> take hundreds of patients. Without patents (legal, not herbal

> patents!) on the line, there is little chance of getting the

funding

> needed to get the data collected and patients recruited.

 

Could you explain more... I think if the schools took charge, things

would not be that difficult. For example, there is much $$$$$ up for

grabs from the NIH for such research (I think), one just has to send

in the proposals. 100's of patients is not that big of deal in a

major city. What are the major legal hurdles????

 

-

[Guest guest]

believe it would be possible to make a good study with less

expenditure where you have a definite diagnosis / etiology, i.e., for

menopause, Fevers d/t Liver Yang Rising with Kidney Yin Xu.

>>>The cheepest and most practical is to just have a blind pharmacist dispense

the herbs. The practitioners can do all the CM they feel is needed (in terms of

herbs) except that they and the patients would not know if the herbs they are

getting is the real deal. This would make it blind and workable

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " "

<@h...> wrote:

> in the proposals. 100's of patients is not that big of deal in a

> major city. What are the major legal hurdles????

>

> -

 

Legal patents, not legal hurdles. Funding is obtained when a

company wants to invest in a drug that can be patented so they can

get a possible return on thier investment. I think you have a good

idea of getting 100's of patients in school clinics, but from what

I've seen, you can't get cooperation in one school let alone

several. There's a lot of ego in this profession!

 

Geoff

[Guest guest]

, " yingsuke2002 "

<list@a...> wrote:

> , " "

> <@h...> wrote:

> > in the proposals. 100's of patients is not that big of deal in

a

> > major city. What are the major legal hurdles????

> >

> > -

>

> Legal patents, not legal hurdles. Funding is obtained when a

> company wants to invest in a drug that can be patented so they can

> get a possible return on thier investment. I think you have a

good

> idea of getting 100's of patients in school clinics, but from what

> I've seen, you can't get cooperation in one school let alone

> several. There's a lot of ego in this profession!

>

> Geoff

 

I was just informed that OCOM is doing research and has obtained

funding throught the NIH...They have a director of research at the

school... Does anyone have any more details on this... SO I guess

things are more possible than we thought.. ????

 

-

[Guest guest]

, " " <

@h...> wrote:

 

> I was just informed that OCOM is doing research and has obtained

> funding throught the NIH...They have a director of research at the

> school... Does anyone have any more details on this... SO I guess

> things are more possible than we thought.. ????

 

 

that was already 2 years ago. see the article in acu today.

 

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2001/dec/12ocom.html

 

I believe NESA was also just made the national center for acupuncture

research with an ongoing annual grant of millions of dollars I believe (just

bastyr is the national center for alternative HIV research).

 

see this page for more:

 

http://www.nesa.edu/research.html

 

Bill Egloff?

 

ignore the naysayers.