Guest guest Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dear fellow herbalists, I am looking for more materia medica and formulas books for clinical reference. I own the following: Bensky - Materia Medica and Formula books Chen, Song yu - Clinical Guide to hbs and fms Hsu, Hong Yen - Companion Handbook Commonly used Ch hb fms Holmes - Jade Remedies Yeung, Him-Che - both Handbooks of Ch hbs and fms books Jiao Shu De - Ten Lectures MacLean and Lyttleton - 1st volume Ehling, Dagmar - a formulas book Wu, Yan - Practical Therapeutics plus a few others What am I glaringly missing? I think I particularly need a more in-depth and extensive Materia Medica--what's your favorite? How about Hong yen Hsu's Materia Medica? I'd like to go with Wiseman-style translations, whenever possible. And I like when I can search according to disease or symptom, not just pattern. Marian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release 12/25/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Marian, Chinese Herbal Medicines, Comparisons and Characteristics. By Yifan Yang fernando , " Marian Blum " <marianb@r...> wrote: > > Dear fellow herbalists, > > I am looking for more materia medica and formulas books for clinical > reference. I own the following: > > Bensky - Materia Medica and Formula books > Chen, Song yu - Clinical Guide to hbs and fms > Hsu, Hong Yen - Companion Handbook Commonly used Ch hb fms > Holmes - Jade Remedies > Yeung, Him-Che - both Handbooks of Ch hbs and fms books > Jiao Shu De - Ten Lectures > MacLean and Lyttleton - 1st volume > Ehling, Dagmar - a formulas book > Wu, Yan - Practical Therapeutics > plus a few others > > What am I glaringly missing? I think I particularly need a more in- depth > and extensive Materia Medica--what's your favorite? How about Hong yen > Hsu's Materia Medica? I'd like to go with Wiseman-style translations, > whenever possible. And I like when I can search according to disease or > symptom, not just pattern. > > Marian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release 12/25/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 At 9:33 PM -0800 1/8/04, Marian Blum wrote: >How about Hong yen Hsu's Materia Medica? -- Marian, It's main advantage is that it lists more herbs, 768, which I think is the most of any English language materia medica. I find myself only using it when reading something from China that refers to an herb not in Bensky, and as such I only find the herb I'm looking for about 2/3 of the time. It does not have an index of symptoms/diseases, it's not written in Wiseman, and there is no combination information. In addition, I find these useful: Chinese Herbal Medicines: Comparisons & Charactersitics by Yang Yifang Notes from South Mountain by Andrew Ellis (formulas) Chinese Herbal Patent Medicines by Jake Fratkin Pao Zhi & Dui Yao by Sionneau I have Chinese Materia Medica: Combinations and Applications by Xu Li & Wang Wei (Donica Publishing). I don't find this adds anything to what's already available in Bensky. I also have other books that have accumulated over the years, and I use them from time to time perhaps through force of habit & familiarity rather than because they add anything. Hope this helps. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I like the two bilingual books, one herbs, the other formulas, called Chine-English Manual of Common Used in Tradiional Chinese Mediine. (yes, that's the English on the front of the herb book). The Chinese is at top with the translation is at the bottom of each page. The original apparently is one of the sources for Bensky. I would agree with the Rory below .... Notes is a particularily well written narrative description of formulas. , Rory Kerr <rory.kerr@w...> wrote: > Notes from South Mountain by Andrew Ellis (formulas) > Chinese Herbal Patent Medicines by Jake Fratkin > Pao Zhi & Dui Yao by Sionneau > > I have Chinese Materia Medica: Combinations and Applications by Xu Li > & Wang Wei (Donica Publishing). I don't find this adds anything to > what's already available in Bensky. > > Rory > -- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Rory, , Rory Kerr <rory.kerr@w...> wrote: > Notes from South Mountain by Andrew Ellis (formulas) I also enjoy this book. I find the cd on pdf format very useful and easy to navigate. Wish there was a Bensky's version on such format. ~fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Chens new book is quite good alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 The new book by John Chen et al is far and away the best presentation I've seen, and the combined index is a lot less work than bensky and some other texts. - " Marian Blum " <marianb " Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine (AT) (DOT) Com " Friday, January 09, 2004 12:33 AM books on medicinals recommended? > > Dear fellow herbalists, > > I am looking for more materia medica and formulas books for clinical > reference. I own the following: > > Bensky - Materia Medica and Formula books > Chen, Song yu - Clinical Guide to hbs and fms > Hsu, Hong Yen - Companion Handbook Commonly used Ch hb fms > Holmes - Jade Remedies > Yeung, Him-Che - both Handbooks of Ch hbs and fms books > Jiao Shu De - Ten Lectures > MacLean and Lyttleton - 1st volume > Ehling, Dagmar - a formulas book > Wu, Yan - Practical Therapeutics > plus a few others > > What am I glaringly missing? I think I particularly need a more in-depth > and extensive Materia Medica--what's your favorite? How about Hong yen > Hsu's Materia Medica? I'd like to go with Wiseman-style translations, > whenever possible. And I like when I can search according to disease or > symptom, not just pattern. > > Marian > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release 12/25/2002 > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > The new book by John Chen et al is far and away the best presentation I've > seen, and the combined index is a lot less work than bensky and some other > texts. this books presents no new clinically relevant material and is thus not worth the expense unless money is no object. as we have noted, much of the citations are based upon animal studies or unblinded research and the drug-herb interactions are mostly speculation. And most people don't think the photos are very high quality, either. Nor is a standard terminology used (though a rudimentary glossary is provided). What about the presentation do you value so far above Bensky? Materia medicas are pretty straightforward things. As long as they are accurate and properly sourced, there is little difference between them. they are really reference books, not teaching texts, so whichever one works for you in terms of layout is as good as any other. A book like jiao shu de or comparisons and characteristics are true teaching texts. for a reference book, I like him che yeung for its convenience and Flaws 260 essentials for use of wiseman terms. As for new materia medicas, I actually like xu and wang the best, though it also presents no new clinically relevant material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Todd inquired... What about the presentation do you value so far above Bensky? Materia > medicas are pretty straightforward things. As long as they are accurate and properly > sourced, there is little difference between them. they are really reference books, not > teaching texts, so whichever one works for you in terms of layout is as good as any > other. Hmm, I think the pictures are decent, not fantastic, but adequate and more useful than line drawing illustrations in other texts. I like the indexing, as I said, while I read some Chinese, I like pinyin to be indexed w/o tones, and combined index vs. multiple indexes, which saves time in reference. I agree that the drug herb interaction stuff is pretty nominal, and in all likelihood speculative. I think that the combination and formula examples are handy and well organized. I find the examples in Bensky, while useful, are somewhat disembodied and at times hard to follow, though I lack the clinical experience of many of the list members, and this may reflect my relative ignorance. One of the problems that I have with most herb texts, which I think Bensky could have addressed seeing as it has a " cut and paste " (short translations of various source texts) format, is a lack of historical perspective in how herb usage has changed over time. (I can here the objection that this doesn't really advance clinical efficacy, but I find myself wanting to know what the perspective of the formula's author, or at least their contemporoaries, was. Chen doesn't address this at all either). I like Wiseman terminology, but I have no problem with Chen's variations for the most part, and in comparison to Bensky the usage seems much more consistent. Another thing that endeared the Chen book to me was inclusion of a few herbs that I like which are orphaned from Bensky. I guess for the most part materia medica are interchangeable, but I think the Chen book is well thought out, well designed, moderately well bound, cheap considering the color plates, and if I were recommending one to a friend I would probably go for it first. Oh yea, the Chinese text in Chen's book is legible! I know I'm a relative lightweight on the list, but I think the book brings a lot of useful stuff together and it does a nice job. Format and ease of use, if it saves you five minutes a day, pays for the book in a couple of months, assuming you have something else to do with your time. Par Scott - " " < Friday, January 09, 2004 5:41 PM Re: books on medicinals recommended? > , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > > The new book by John Chen et al is far and away the best presentation I've > > seen, and the combined index is a lot less work than bensky and some other > > texts. > > this books presents no new clinically relevant material and is thus not worth the > expense unless money is no object. as we have noted, much of the citations are > based upon animal studies or unblinded research and the drug-herb interactions are > mostly speculation. And most people don't think the photos are very high quality, > either. Nor is a standard terminology used (though a rudimentary glossary is > provided). What about the presentation do you value so far above Bensky? Materia > medicas are pretty straightforward things. As long as they are accurate and properly > sourced, there is little difference between them. they are really reference books, not > teaching texts, so whichever one works for you in terms of layout is as good as any > other. A book like jiao shu de or comparisons and characteristics are true teaching > texts. for a reference book, I like him che yeung for its convenience and Flaws 260 > essentials for use of wiseman terms. As for new materia medicas, I actually like xu > and wang the best, though it also presents no new clinically relevant material. > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hi Marian Try Zhu You-ping's Chinese Materia Medica. Simon Becker Marian Blum [marianb] Freitag, 9. Januar 2004 06:33 Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine (AT) (DOT) Com books on medicinals recommended? Dear fellow herbalists, I am looking for more materia medica and formulas books for clinical reference. I own the following: Bensky - Materia Medica and Formula books Chen, Song yu - Clinical Guide to hbs and fms Hsu, Hong Yen - Companion Handbook Commonly used Ch hb fms Holmes - Jade Remedies Yeung, Him-Che - both Handbooks of Ch hbs and fms books Jiao Shu De - Ten Lectures MacLean and Lyttleton - 1st volume Ehling, Dagmar - a formulas book Wu, Yan - Practical Therapeutics plus a few others What am I glaringly missing? I think I particularly need a more in-depth and extensive Materia Medica--what's your favorite? How about Hong yen Hsu's Materia Medica? I'd like to go with Wiseman-style translations, whenever possible. And I like when I can search according to disease or symptom, not just pattern. Marian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release 12/25/2002 Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I don't quite understand what your issue with Chen's book is. Bensky does not use standard terminology (Wiseman) and does not include a good glossary. Chen lists a lot of useful pharmacological and toxicological data which cannot be found in Bensky (or other materia medicas except Zhu You-ping). Chen's glossary is more than rudimentary. Many, but not all, herb-drug interactions are speculative but interesting and worthwile to keep in mind (these thought-provoking inputs are missing in Bensky). Plus, Chen lists a nice number of medicinals. So why put it down so much. It is a good book. And the price is very low for the type of book it is. The revised Bensky will come out soon. It will be much more thourough than the current version. So it will raise the bar again a bit. Of course, I also find it a great pitty that Chen did not use Wiseman terminology. But Chen's work is certainly a good and valuable book. Simon Becker Freitag, 9. Januar 2004 23:42 Re: books on medicinals recommended? , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > The new book by John Chen et al is far and away the best presentation I've > seen, and the combined index is a lot less work than bensky and some other > texts. this books presents no new clinically relevant material and is thus not worth the expense unless money is no object. as we have noted, much of the citations are based upon animal studies or unblinded research and the drug-herb interactions are mostly speculation. And most people don't think the photos are very high quality, either. Nor is a standard terminology used (though a rudimentary glossary is provided). What about the presentation do you value so far above Bensky? Materia medicas are pretty straightforward things. As long as they are accurate and properly sourced, there is little difference between them. they are really reference books, not teaching texts, so whichever one works for you in terms of layout is as good as any other. A book like jiao shu de or comparisons and characteristics are true teaching texts. for a reference book, I like him che yeung for its convenience and Flaws 260 essentials for use of wiseman terms. As for new materia medicas, I actually like xu and wang the best, though it also presents no new clinically relevant material. Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Plus, Chen lists a nice number of medicinals. So why put it down so much. It is a good book. And the price is very low for the type of book it is. >>>>I agree and like the text as well. I think it is laid out in a useful way Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 this books presents no new clinically relevant material and is thus not worth the expense unless money is no object. >>>Todd that is not true for example information on po bu zi ye alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I agree with Alon and Simon about Chen's book. Even if ANY of the drug/herb or herb/herb interactions are useful, that is more than we have got from other books on that subject. And Chen, being a Pharm.D., is basing his ideas on more than speculation, I am certain! I have attended his lectures, and he is very knowledgeable. are you biased against him just because he owns an herbal company? Plenty of writers do, including Maciocia and Andy Ellis. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.