Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 , " " wrote: > " " wrote: If you translate depression (wiseman:yu) as stagnation, how > do you translate stagnation (wiseman:zhi) and distinguish between the two? Or is > this clinically unnecessary IYO? > oh yeah. my websters gives one meaning of stagnation as inactivity, thus depression and stagnation do overlap in meaning. though depression (both in common english use and wiseman's rendering of the chinese) retains the connotation of mood involvement, while stagnation is a more general term. If the chinese term yu (wiseman:depression) inherently carries the connotation of mood involvement, then depression is clearly the more accurate english rendering of this concept. While yu/ depression has been used more widely in the past, it appears to be limited to liver qi in the modern literature. Thus, I think in that context mood involvement is implied. With all due respect to the chinese doctors mentioned who did not think much of this term, we have already discussed at length the criteria for translation and speaking the source language is not sufficient. The lead translator or final editor must be a native speaker of the target language. This is standard in in all fields. Does anyone dispute this? What would the basis of this dispute be? If the chinese docs in question were unfamiliar with the complete dictionary definitions of stagnation and depression as they are used in english, how could they comment on the term choices. In my experience, most would not be thoroughly familiar with these nuances and similarities. Consider the the fairly straightforward example of economic depression, which means sluggish activity of the economy. This use of depression is thus hardly obscure in common speech. In fact, the opposite of economic depression, which is economic growth, makes one think of a healthy wood element, which carries with it connotation of growth and spreading of things. I suspect Wiseman gave this one immense thought given its ubiquity in our field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Having worked recently on joint translation projects with a Chinese doctor, I can agree on the necessity of having native English speakers in determining term choices for the target language. I think there is clearly a strong case for distinguishing the use of yu/depression and zhi/stagnation in clinical practice, and not blurring the terms. On Jan 9, 2004, at 3:07 PM, wrote: > With all due respect to the chinese doctors mentioned who did not > think much of this > term, we have already discussed at length the criteria for translation > and speaking the > source language is not sufficient. The lead translator or final > editor must be a native > speaker of the target language. This is standard in in all fields. > Does anyone dispute > this? What would the basis of this dispute be? If the chinese docs > in question were > unfamiliar with the complete dictionary definitions of stagnation and > depression as > they are used in english, how could they comment on the term choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 If you translate depression (wiseman:yu) as stagnation, how > do you translate stagnation (wiseman:zhi) and distinguish between the two? Or is > this clinically unnecessary IYO? > >>>>>>I like and use congestion Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > If you translate depression (wiseman:yu) as stagnation, how > > do you translate stagnation (wiseman:zhi) and distinguish between the two? Or is > > this clinically unnecessary IYO? > > > > >>>>>>I like and use congestion > Alon What do you use for " congestion " then, as in " nasal congestion. " If you use congestion for that also, do you think that it means the same thing as the chinese term " zhi " ? Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I think conjestion is OK. My point is just that depression is not acceptable. Again: As to yu being connected to emotional depression I have been told over and over that by native speakers that this is an allusion (sp?), a sort of a pun and only refers to the liver aspect. So having Blood depression or phlegm depression makes no sense. Further, using yu/depression as a diagnosis will set off a number of bells in the clinic. Wiseman says we don't have to use the same words in front of the patients as on our intake forms. This is not possible in my clinic or especially the student clinics. What does the following mean? " I had three patients today who suffered from depression, each of the cases of depression was unique. " Is this any way to run a language? I see this problem coming up all the time with this term and it really bugs me. I agree zhi and yu should be seperated, although it is not a big, big issue. I would suggest " transitory stagnation " for zhi. Or something. I think it will matter more to translators than clinicians. doug , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > If you translate depression (wiseman:yu) as stagnation, how > > do you translate stagnation (wiseman:zhi) and distinguish between the two? Or is > > this clinically unnecessary IYO? > > > > >>>>>>I like and use congestion > Alon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I use liver congestion has the so-called depression comes from the idea of not spreading its qi Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > Having worked recently on joint translation projects with a Chinese > doctor, I can agree on the necessity of having native English speakers > in determining term choices for the target language. I think there is > clearly a strong case for distinguishing the use of yu/depression and > zhi/stagnation in clinical practice, and not blurring the terms. > > > On Jan 9, 2004, at 3:07 PM, wrote: Z'ev Would you be willing to share some of these translations, I would love to post them on my website. What were the topics? -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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