Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidants that " Cool " the inflammation process. Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minerals that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body and cools inflamation. In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. IMHO, Chris In a message dated 1/11/2004 9:41:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: It is my understanding that coffee is warming and green tea is supposedly cooling (also bitter and sweet). I have always wondered about why tea is cooling? Yes it is light in color, green etc but how does it explain its stimulating effects especially side-effects that IMO represent heat or excess activity. I.e. insomnia, hot flushing, palpitations, etc. comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I am sure there are differences in processing. There are also different varieties called " Green Tea. " In addition, even the same variety of plant grown in differing conditions will have remarkably different nutrient levels. Chris In a message dated 1/11/2004 1:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: My friend who owns a tea cafe says there is are differences in greens teas. In general Japanese tea is calming while Chinese green tea has the stimulation of coffee. I think she said it depends on the processing, the amount of exposure to air after picking. doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , ross rosen <rossrosen> wrote: > Wondering if anyone read Subhuti Dharmananda's recent article on the TCM perspective of coffee. He questions the idea that coffee depletes the Kidneys and puts forth the argument that coffee actually purges the Liver and Gall Bladder thus providing the energy boosting effects. He also notes some strengthening effects on the Heart and mild Spleen supplementation. I would love to know others' opinions on the subject, especially with the recent thread on understanding fatigue. It is my understanding that coffee is warming and green tea is supposedly cooling (also bitter and sweet). I have always wondered about why tea is cooling? Yes it is light in color, green etc but how does it explain its stimulating effects especially side-effects that IMO represent heat or excess activity. I.e. insomnia, hot flushing, palpitations, etc. comments? AS far as the SD article, I haven't read it, but as I have said many times, I think it a common practice in CM to glorify the positive attributes of herbs and downplay the side-effects or damaging qualities. Actually I guess we like that also here in the West, i.e. " if you drink 6 beers a day you will have less heart disease " - A medicinal almost always comes with a price (or at least has the potential if not prescribed properly). There is a small CI section for each herb, but I think this should or can be developed much more so. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Very good points indeed. IMHO, there are a couple other points to consider. AFAIK, there are a different reasons that the body holds on to water. One of those has to do with inflammation. I cannot explain why, but I believe when the body has an excess inflammation process going on, it tends to hold water. Break the inflammation cycle and the water tends to get filtered out. In this case, even though there is a yin fluid being wasted, it may not lead to yin deficiency as the body fluid dynamics come more into balance. Even though there are compounds that would tend to stimulate the CNS, I believe the balance is still anti inflammatory. We can label many of the compounds in the tea, and I believe we will find that some of those compounds to mediate inflammation to a greater degree than many have thought. The catachins for example are said to be 20x stronger than Vit. E. And there are a lot of them in tea. I believe there are also potent bioflavinoids in green tea that would tend to strengthen and cool the body. Of course, I could be completely wrong,,,,,,, Best regards, Chris In a message dated 1/11/2004 1:47:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, snakeoil.works writes: This has always puzzled me. Yes the polyphenols are a plus, but the theobromine and theophylline(caffeine-like alkaloids) in tea are CNS stimulating, moreso in black tea than green. Yet green tea is more diuretic than black, which in turn is more diuretic than coffee, which in turn is more CNS stimulating than either black or green. Now a damp person is apt to be benefited by diuretic aid to water loss, but does that not drain fluids - a detriment to those already on the dry side? Damage to fluids and yin leads to heat signs sooner or later. I like tea but can't really tolerate more than a cup or 2 a day. Thus taking the catechins via tablet as now available might be some of the good karma of living at the end of the 20th century. (I look for good karma where i can find it.). So anyway, caffeine or caffeine-like alkaloids stimulate, but do not tonify/nourish. Some have labeled this as primarily moving(select termino of choice) liver qi, which to continually habitually do over time would result in some form of taxation. That is, kicking the adrenals into action is a " boost " (the name of many current energy stimulants) but not necessarily a boon at the end of the day(month). Hmmm? Ann > Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidants > that " Cool " the inflammation process. > Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minerals > that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body and > cools inflamation. > In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. > IMHO, > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 There is a small CI section for each herb, but I think this should or can be developed much more so. >>>At the same time coffee has been studied extensively and virtually no damaging effects can be documented as long as the dose is reasonable alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , Musiclear@a... wrote: > Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidants > that " Cool " the inflammation process. > Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minerals > that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body and > cools inflamation. > In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. > IMHO, > > Chris > Chris, This somewhat makes sense, but the mixing of paradigms here feels troublesome. I.e. What inflammation process are we referring too... and in light of our previous discussion, the 'internal inflammation process' from a western perspective I still see internal inflammation as not necessarily being by default HOT. What does support the sympathetic nervous system mean? I know plenty of people who drink green tea and feel anxious. If you drink enough caffeine, I don't see anything calming about it. But I would like to here some more about this inflammation process, is it common western research that it does this? Thanx for your input. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 This has always puzzled me. Yes the polyphenols are a plus, but the theobromine and theophylline(caffeine-like alkaloids) in tea are CNS stimulating, moreso in black tea than green. Yet green tea is more diuretic than black, which in turn is more diuretic than coffee, which in turn is more CNS stimulating than either black or green. Now a damp person is apt to be benefited by diuretic aid to water loss, but does that not drain fluids - a detriment to those already on the dry side? Damage to fluids and yin leads to heat signs sooner or later. I like tea but can't really tolerate more than a cup or 2 a day. Thus taking the catechins via tablet as now available might be some of the good karma of living at the end of the 20th century. (I look for good karma where i can find it.). So anyway, caffeine or caffeine-like alkaloids stimulate, but do not tonify/nourish. Some have labeled this as primarily moving(select termino of choice) liver qi, which to continually habitually do over time would result in some form of taxation. That is, kicking the adrenals into action is a " boost " (the name of many current energy stimulants) but not necessarily a boon at the end of the day(month). Hmmm? Ann > Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidants > that " Cool " the inflammation process. > Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minerals > that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body and > cools inflamation. > In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. > IMHO, > > Chris > > In a message dated 1/11/2004 9:41:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > writes: > It is my understanding that coffee is warming and green tea is > supposedly cooling (also bitter and sweet). > > I have always wondered about why tea is cooling? Yes it is light in > color, green etc but how does it explain its stimulating effects > especially side-effects that IMO represent heat or excess activity. > I.e. insomnia, hot flushing, palpitations, etc. comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 My friend who owns a tea cafe says there is are differences in greens teas. In general Japanese tea is calming while Chinese green tea has the stimulation of coffee. I think she said it depends on the processing, the amount of exposure to air after picking. doug I know plenty of > people who drink green tea and feel anxious. If you drink enough > caffeine, I don't see anything calming about it. But I would like > to here some more about this inflammation process, is it common > western research that it does this? Thanx for your input. > > -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , Musiclear@a... wrote: > I am sure there are differences in processing. There are also different varieties called " Green Tea. " > In addition, even the same variety of plant grown in differing > conditions will have remarkably different nutrient levels.> >> Chris: I remember hearing on the news that there is a coffee process that recovers the polyphenols or phytochemicals that are also found in tea. Unfortunately, I don't think it is in commerical use yet. Now that the Chinese are trying to grow coffee on their own plantations, we may be hearing that it was originally discovered in China ;-) Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 In a message dated 1/11/2004 12:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: Chris, This somewhat makes sense, but the mixing of paradigms here feels troublesome. I.e. What inflammation process are we referring too... and in light of our previous discussion, the 'internal inflammation process' from a western perspective I still see internal inflammation as not necessarily being by default HOT. >>>>Chris replies: I agree. Inflammation is a natural part of our life. Without it, we would die. It needs to be in balance with the other forces to maintain a general state of homeostasis. The problem some people have is through diet and poor life style choices, they are empowering the inflammatory reactions to a fault. When that happens, we see heat symptoms as a result of free radicals and histamine release among other things. IMHO, it is the latter symptoms that the abundant anti oxidants and minerals found in green tea help to mediate. What does support the sympathetic nervous system mean? I know plenty of people who drink green tea and feel anxious. >>>> Chris replies: They are probably low in PNS supporting minerals. A little caffeine should not give you the gitters. If it does, the body is imbalanced to the point where it jhas a hard time dealing with stress. Generally potassium magnesium, calcium. Maybe sodium. If you drink enough caffeine, I don't see anything calming about it. >>>Chris replies: Of course. But if the body is well fortified with minerals, EFA's and a balanced CNS, then a little caffeine just helps keep the chi moving. Again, IMHO, if a person has trouble with a little caffeine, they have other problems to deal with. But I would like to here some more about this inflammation process, is it common western research that it does this? Thanx for your input. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , Musiclear@a... wrote: > Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidan= ts > that " Cool " the inflammation process. > Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minera= ls > that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body a= nd > cools inflamation. > In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. > IMHO, > several points here in response to this thread, not this post in particular= .. First, green tea is probably cooling because of an amino acid called theanine that compl= etely eradicates the side effects of caffeine. Second, I believe coffee is prett= y high in antixoidants itself. here a couple of abstracts, but you can find more on = pubmed and lots on google. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2000 Feb;64(2):287-93. Inhibiting effects of theanine on caffeine stimulation evaluated by EEG in = the rat. Kakuda T, Nozawa A, Unno T, Okamura N, Okai O. Central Research Institute, Itoen Ltd., Shizuoka, Japan. ITN00527.= jp In this study, the inhibiting action of theanine on the excitation by caffe= ine at the concentration regularly associated with drinking tea was investigated using= electroencephalography (EEG) in rats. First, the stimulatory action by caff= eine i.v. administration at a level higher than 5 micromol/kg (0.970 mg/kg) b.w. was = shown by means of brain wave analysis, and this level was suggested as the minimu= m dose of caffeine as a stimulant. Next, the stimulatory effects of caffeine were = inhibited by an i.v. administration of theanine at a level higher than 5 micromol/kg (0.= 781 mg/kg) b.w., and the results suggested that theanine has an antagonistic effect on= caffeine's stimulatory action at an almost equivalent molar concentration. On the othe= r hand, the excitatory effects were shown in the rat i.v. administered 1 and 2 micr= omol/kg (0.174 and 0.348 mg/kg) b.w. of theanine alone. These results suggested two= effects of theanine, depending on its concentration. J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Oct 9;50(21):6211-6. Coffee drinking influences plasma antioxidant capacity in humans. Natella F, Nardini M, Giannetti I, Dattilo C, Scaccini C. Free Radical Research Group, National Research Institute for Food and Nutri= tion, via Ardeatina 546, 00178 Roma, Italy. natella Coffee and tea are widely consumed beverages, but only tea has been studied= for its antioxidant capacity (AC) in vivo. The aim of this study was to compare the= capacities of coffee and tea to affect plasma redox homeostasis in humans. The AC of p= lasma before and after supplementation with 200 mL of beverages (0, 1, and 2 h) w= as measured by the TRAP and crocin tests. The crocin test detected an increase= in plasma AC only in subjects supplemented with coffee (+7% at peak time), whe= reas the TRAP method showed an increase in plasma AC after consumption of both coffe= e and tea (+6 and +4%, respectively, at peak time). Both beverages induced a sign= ificant increase in plasma uric acid (+5 and +7%, respectively). Uric acid strongly= affects the results obtained by the TRAP test and does not affect those obtained by the= crocin test. We can thus argue that uric acid is the main component responsible fo= r the plasma AC increase after tea drinking, whereas molecules other than uric ac= id (probably phenolic compounds) are likely to be responsible for the increase= in plasma AC after coffee drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , " " wrote: > , Musiclear@a... wrote: > > Green tea is anti-inflammatory in nature. It has numerous antioxidan= > ts > > that " Cool " the inflammation process. > > Even though it does stimulate via the caffeine it has building minera= > ls > > that support the sympathetic nervous system, which again calms the body a= > nd > > cools inflamation. > > In the end you end up with a supported energy and less inflammation. > > IMHO, > > > > > several points here in response to this thread, not this post in particular= > . First, green > tea is probably cooling because of an amino acid called theanine that compl= > etely > eradicates the side effects of caffeine. Second, I believe coffee is prett= > y high in > antixoidants itself. here a couple of abstracts, but you can find more on = > pubmed and > lots on google. > I am unsure if the below study supports that green tea eradicates caffeine's side effects…Furthermore, the side effects are already known to occur. People get insomnia, palpitations, hot flashes etc… I know because I have had them (among others)… Most of this discussion is trying to justify the coolness with biomedical constitutes. Some circular reasoning. Maybe this type of thinking works, but My point is that I don't think green tea is necessarily cooling, because of its actions. I have no idea what was being said about the fluids and inflammation (Chris). What are we talking about with inflammation? I don't think the way you are using inflammation means that it is HOT. But show me a study that shows green tea eradicating some inflammation process, (with s/s). I actually think it is best to keep to CM when trying to understand this unless there is so DIRECT relevant information. Comments… - > > Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 2000 Feb;64(2):287-93. > > > Inhibiting effects of theanine on caffeine stimulation evaluated by EEG in = > the rat. > > Kakuda T, Nozawa A, Unno T, Okamura N, Okai O. > > Central Research Institute, Itoen Ltd., Shizuoka, Japan. ITN00527@n...= > jp > > In this study, the inhibiting action of theanine on the excitation by caffe= > ine at the > concentration regularly associated with drinking tea was investigated using= > > electroencephalography (EEG) in rats. First, the stimulatory action by caff= > eine i.v. > administration at a level higher than 5 micromol/kg (0.970 mg/kg) b.w. was = > shown > by means of brain wave analysis, and this level was suggested as the minimu= > m dose > of caffeine as a stimulant. Next, the stimulatory effects of caffeine were = > inhibited by > an i.v. administration of theanine at a level higher than 5 micromol/kg (0.= > 781 mg/kg) > b.w., and the results suggested that theanine has an antagonistic effect on= > caffeine's > stimulatory action at an almost equivalent molar concentration. On the othe= > r hand, > the excitatory effects were shown in the rat i.v. administered 1 and 2 micr= > omol/kg > (0.174 and 0.348 mg/kg) b.w. of theanine alone. These results suggested two= > effects > of theanine, depending on its concentration. > > J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Oct 9;50(21):6211-6. > > Coffee drinking influences plasma antioxidant capacity in humans. > > Natella F, Nardini M, Giannetti I, Dattilo C, Scaccini C. > > Free Radical Research Group, National Research Institute for Food and Nutri= > tion, via > Ardeatina 546, 00178 Roma, Italy. natella@i... > > Coffee and tea are widely consumed beverages, but only tea has been studied= > for its > antioxidant capacity (AC) in vivo. The aim of this study was to compare the= > capacities > of coffee and tea to affect plasma redox homeostasis in humans. The AC of p= > lasma > before and after supplementation with 200 mL of beverages (0, 1, and 2 h) w= > as > measured by the TRAP and crocin tests. The crocin test detected an increase= > in > plasma AC only in subjects supplemented with coffee (+7% at peak time), whe= > reas the > TRAP method showed an increase in plasma AC after consumption of both coffe= > e and > tea (+6 and +4%, respectively, at peak time). Both beverages induced a sign= > ificant > increase in plasma uric acid (+5 and +7%, respectively). Uric acid strongly= > affects the > results obtained by the TRAP test and does not affect those obtained by the= > crocin > test. We can thus argue that uric acid is the main component responsible fo= > r the > plasma AC increase after tea drinking, whereas molecules other than uric ac= > id > (probably phenolic compounds) are likely to be responsible for the increase= > in plasma > AC after coffee drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , " " <@h.= ...> wrote: > > > > I am unsure if the below study supports that green tea eradicates > caffeine's side effects…Furthermore, the side effects are already > known to occur. People get insomnia, palpitations, hot flashes etc… it's theanine that eradicates caffeine's side effects; it is a component of= green tea. do a google search for more details. cheap green teas have very little and exp= ensive ones a lot. Expensive green teas are supposed to have different effects than th= e cheap stuff. Have you experimented with grades. a chinese friend told me that t= he stuff I am talking about is probably $100 a pound, still a good per cup value at 20= -40 cents per cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 it's theanine that eradicates caffeine's side effects; it is a component of= green tea. >>>Todd at the same time some people clearly get palpitation and insomnia from green tea. So the L-theanine may not be sufficient within the tea. I use it (L-theanine) all the time on its own or with GABA and some patients find it calming, others do not feel anything Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , " " wrote: > , " " <@h.= > ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am unsure if the below study supports that green tea eradicates > > caffeine's side effects… Furthermore, the side effects are already > > known to occur. People get insomnia, palpitations, hot flashes etc… > > it's theanine that eradicates caffeine's side effects; it is a component of= > green tea. Yes.. but the study was a isolated ingredient, on rats. The rat issue is only minor, but just using this isolated ingredient and testing a EKG is suspect. (IMO) I do think higher grades make a difference, I actually only drink decent grade about $80.00 lb. but there is definitely still side-effects if you drink enough. But, the google search does little to help me with my question about its temperature and what I have witnessed. Especially because I can't imagine that the majority of Chinese can afford top grade teas. I am sure the majority of people drink the same $20. lb stuff that we do, therefore the side-effects should be more obvious in the populous. -Jason do > a google search for more details. cheap green teas have very little and exp= > ensive ones > a lot. Expensive green teas are supposed to have different effects than th= > e cheap > stuff. Have you experimented with grades. a chinese friend told me that t= > he stuff I > am talking about is probably $100 a pound, still a good per cup value at 20= > -40 cents > per cup. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 , " " wrote: > , " " <@h.= > ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am unsure if the below study supports that green tea eradicates > > caffeine's side effects…Furthermore, the side effects are already > > known to occur. People get insomnia, palpitations, hot flashes etc… > > it's theanine that eradicates caffeine's side effects; it is a component of= > green tea. do > a google search for more details. Actually just checked it out on google, and did not find any support for this... but maybe I missed it... let me know if you find something good - cheap green teas have very little and exp= > ensive ones > a lot. Expensive green teas are supposed to have different effects than th= > e cheap > stuff. Have you experimented with grades. a chinese friend told me that t= > he stuff I > am talking about is probably $100 a pound, still a good per cup value at 20= > -40 cents > per cup. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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