Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Female, 42, heavy periods, just off OCP's 3 months ago. All s/s point to spleen qi not holding blood and liver blood vacuity. No reported or elicited s/s point to liver depression. However, the patient does have cramps and clots. This is attributed to blood stasis due to qi vacuity. The patient is known to me for several months when she reports this problem. She is very earth constitution, no hint of wood in her demeanor as far as I could tell. Anyway, she responds to bu zhong yi qi tang plus stop bleeding herbs one week before her period with early and profuse bleeding. This happens in month 1 and month 3. during month 2, she is on vacation and takes jia wei xiao yao san all month and has a normal period. Upon questioning, she has been quite irritable, hot-tempered and sighing frequently (but I suspect this is situational and was not necessarily the case all along). All this is confirmed by her regular carpool companion who is present in the exam room. Though her tongue and pulse seem to point very much towards qi and blood xu, the patient has good energy. The tongue is dry from the blood loss and in hindsight, the weak pulse and pale tongue could be due to excessive blood loss from liver depression heat. but then wouldn't the tongue redden or purple again after ovulation if their really was heat building up. The tongue does have the sublingual distended veins at this time, though. Thus, it seems that perhaps the patient got more stagnant and hot from taking bu zhong yi qi tang. Its hard for me to see how that is the case as BZYQT contains chen pi, dang gui, chai hu and sheng ma are all dispersing. and perhaps huang qi also has this property as well. Or perhaps the patient is just readjusting to life after 12 years on the pill and we should be patient. At this point, my sense is to use blood building after her period, then shift to jia wei xiao yao after ovulation if the liver depression persists (perhaps the OCPs were masking or relieving the liver depression). the blood loss may of course may a major factor in the mounting depression and heat, as well. finally, the patients 7 female relatives on her mother's side all had hysterectomies from heavy blood loss before age 35. thoughts? As a side note, how do people address female complaints in general. Several of my professors always nourish blood after the period, supplement yang around ovulation and moves qi premenstrually, regardless of the patient's pattern. In other words, treatment is for the pattern plus blood tonics post menstrually and so on. They use this strategy for infertility and PMS. Do others agree? does it apply to uterine bleeding as well, even in the early stages of treatment. How do yang tonics figure into this equation in people's experience? Chinese Herbs FAX: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 When are the cramps and clots coming? I think that's key. I read in someone's book that all cases of bleeding involve Blood stasis - must have been that Wang Qing Ren guy again... If she's getting cramps and clots on Day 1, you should strongly consider Blood stasis, and tonics from Day 14 to Day 1 will worsen the problem. I do the 'side note' you mention all the time, except I don't always tonify yang. Instead, I often move the Blood durning the period (when they have cramps and pain on Day 1) My patients find it works very well. Geoff ______________________ Message: 12 Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:37:03 -0800 < uterine bleeding Female, 42, heavy periods, just off OCP's 3 months ago. All s/s point to spleen qi not holding blood and liver blood vacuity. No reported or elicited s/s point to liver depression. However, the patient does have cramps and clots. This is attributed to blood stasis due to qi vacuity. The patient is known to me for several months when she .... As a side note, how do people address female complaints in general. Several of my professors always nourish blood after the period, supplement yang around ovulation and moves qi premenstrually, regardless of the patient's pattern. In other words, treatment is for the pattern plus blood tonics post menstrually and so on. They use this strategy for infertility and PMS. Do others agree? does it apply to uterine bleeding as well, even in the early stages of treatment. How do yang tonics figure into this equation in people's experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 I needed to send this again as it got lost in the events of the weekend. , wrote: > Female, 42, heavy periods, just off OCP's 3 months ago. All s/s point > to spleen qi not holding blood and liver blood vacuity. No reported or > elicited s/s point to liver depression. However, the patient does have > cramps and clots. This is attributed to blood stasis due to qi > vacuity. The patient is known to me for several months when she > reports this problem. She is very earth constitution, no hint of wood > in her demeanor as far as I could tell. Anyway, she responds to bu > zhong yi qi tang plus stop bleeding herbs one week before her period > with early and profuse bleeding. This happens in month 1 and month 3. > during month 2, she is on vacation and takes jia wei xiao yao san all > month and has a normal period. Upon questioning, she has been quite > irritable, hot-tempered and sighing frequently (but I suspect this is > situational and was not necessarily the case all along). All this is > confirmed by her regular carpool companion who is present in the exam > room. > > Though her tongue and pulse seem to point very much towards qi and > blood xu, the patient has good energy. The tongue is dry from the > blood loss and in hindsight, the weak pulse and pale tongue could be > due to excessive blood loss from liver depression heat. but then > wouldn't the tongue redden or purple again after ovulation if their > really was heat building up. The tongue does have the sublingual > distended veins at this time, though. Thus, it seems that perhaps the > patient got more stagnant and hot from taking bu zhong yi qi tang. Its > hard for me to see how that is the case as BZYQT contains chen pi, dang > gui, chai hu and sheng ma are all dispersing. and perhaps huang qi > also has this property as well. Or perhaps the patient is just > readjusting to life after 12 years on the pill and we should be > patient. At this point, my sense is to use blood building after her > period, then shift to jia wei xiao yao after ovulation if the liver > depression persists (perhaps the OCPs were masking or relieving the > liver depression). the blood loss may of course may a major factor in > the mounting depression and heat, as well. finally, the patients 7 > female relatives on her mother's side all had hysterectomies from heavy > blood loss before age 35. thoughts? > > As a side note, how do people address female complaints in general. > Several of my professors always nourish blood after the period, > supplement yang around ovulation and moves qi premenstrually, > regardless of the patient's pattern. In other words, treatment is for > the pattern plus blood tonics post menstrually and so on. They use > this strategy for infertility and PMS. Do others agree? does it apply > to uterine bleeding as well, even in the early stages of treatment. > How do yang tonics figure into this equation in people's experience? > > > Chinese Herbs > > FAX: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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