What's in a teapill / granule / powder (was:Teapills, granulars vs bulk)

[Guest guest]

No. The raw herbs are cooked in a low pressure, low temperature (less

than 212') system to prevent the volitile oils from being damaged. From

here, you can take two roads. For teapills ( wan / pian ), this liquid

is evaporated, ground, and rolled into pills. For granules ( chong ji

), the liquid is sprayed onto binders (startch or the ground up

reminants of the extracted herbs) then evaporated and made into a

granule. Usually when people talk about 'powders', I think of raw herbs

ground into powder (like the kind used in 'san' - drafts).

 

FWIW, I think it's possible that some of the ineffectiveness people have

had from teapills is due to using 'off-brand' type pills. I used to

just go to Chinatown in Vancouver or Seattle and buy my stuff. In

Vancouver, it was super cheap - like $1.50 CDN for a bottle of Gui Pi

Wan or the like (about $1 USD). However, those formulas rarely worked

well. I hated them. It's amazing that people would bother making

knock-offs and sell them for a buck. When I got too lazy to drive to

Vancouver to get herbs, I tried ordering some of the Min Shan / Lan Zhou

Fo Ci pills, and had totally different results. Yin Qiao actually

worked for me, I was shocked! They've been around since 1929 and make

more than 12 million pills per day, so I'm comfortable they know what

they're doing.

 

Geoff

 

> __________

>

> Message: 13

> Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:32:36 -0000

> " bcataiji " <bcaom

> Re: Teapills, granulars vs bulk

>

> Likewise, isn't it the residue that is used to make the teapills? I

> wonder how much residue would come from a decotion of 100-150 grams of

> herbs vs. that of 48 tea pills (2 days worth).

[Guest guest]

, " Geoffrey Hudson "

<list@a...> wrote:

> No. The raw herbs are cooked in a low pressure, low temperature (less

> than 212') system to prevent the volitile oils from being damaged. From

> here, you can take two roads. For teapills ( wan / pian ), this liquid

> is evaporated, ground, and rolled into pills. For granules ( chong ji

> ), the liquid is sprayed onto binders (startch or the ground up

> reminants of the extracted herbs) then evaporated and made into a

> granule. Usually when people talk about 'powders', I think of raw herbs

> ground into powder (like the kind used in 'san' - drafts).

 

Are you suggesting that manufactures use the same procedure for

granulars and teapills? OR should I say same liquid concentration?

This is hard to believe since teapills are incredibly lower in price

and much less potent (IMO). could you, or someone elaborate on the

difference in processes of these two? It seems modern granular

technology is pretty high tech now...?? Thanx,

 

-

 

 

>

> FWIW, I think it's possible that some of the ineffectiveness people have

> had from teapills is due to using 'off-brand' type pills. I used to

> just go to Chinatown in Vancouver or Seattle and buy my stuff. In

> Vancouver, it was super cheap - like $1.50 CDN for a bottle of Gui Pi

> Wan or the like (about $1 USD). However, those formulas rarely worked

> well. I hated them. It's amazing that people would bother making

> knock-offs and sell them for a buck. When I got too lazy to drive to

> Vancouver to get herbs, I tried ordering some of the Min Shan / Lan Zhou

> Fo Ci pills, and had totally different results. Yin Qiao actually

> worked for me, I was shocked! They've been around since 1929 and make

> more than 12 million pills per day, so I'm comfortable they know what

> they're doing.

>

> Geoff

>

> > __________

> >

> > Message: 13

> > Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:32:36 -0000

> > " bcataiji " <bcaom@c...>

> > Re: Teapills, granulars vs bulk

> >

> > Likewise, isn't it the residue that is used to make the teapills? I

> > wonder how much residue would come from a decotion of 100-150 grams of

> > herbs vs. that of 48 tea pills (2 days worth).

[Guest guest]

Perhaps I am confused with what various list members are referring to

when they say " tea pills " .

 

As Jason suggested.......tea pills are dirt cheap. How could they be if

they were using state of the art technologies used in the production of

high concentrate powders/granules? This technology is relatively new

and lan zhou type tea pills have been around much longer than the

technology you suggest produces them.

 

 

 

 

 

> , " Geoffrey Hudson "

> <list@a...> wrote:

>> No. The raw herbs are cooked in a low pressure, low temperature (less

>> than 212') system to prevent the volitile oils from being damaged.

>> From

>> here, you can take two roads. For teapills ( wan / pian ), this

>> liquid

>> is evaporated, ground, and rolled into pills. For granules ( chong ji

>> ), the liquid is sprayed onto binders (startch or the ground up

>> reminants of the extracted herbs) then evaporated and made into a

>> granule. Usually when people talk about 'powders', I think of raw

>> herbs

>> ground into powder (like the kind used in 'san' - drafts).

 

This is certainly not correct from all I have read and been told.

Concentrated powders are made via the process you mention here for

granules. From my understanding....granules and concentrated powder

extracts differ only in size of granule and perhaps slight differences

in percentage/type of binder.

 

This process is not designed to prevent volatile oils from being

damaged. It modern systems these oils are captured as they evaporate

off (which occurs early in cooking) and reintroduced to the

powder/granules at a later stage of production.

 

I am not so certain on the process of making tea-pills but it is not

the same as the above. I have been told they are just ground raw herb

powder rolled in licorice and honey to form pills. Perhaps you are

talking about concentrated tablet forms rather than the old lan zhou

type tea pills.

 

Certainly san 'powders' were just powdered raw herbs......that is no

longer the case when we talk of extracts or concentrates.

 

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

Geoff,

As Jason just brought up,your description of how tea pills are made

doesn't make sense. It's my understanding that these pills are made

from raw herbs that have been ground up into a very fine powder and

then coated.They have not been cooked and there is no concentration

of the materials. Bioavailability of some of the ingredients may be

greater in this powder form but remeber you are using much less than

10 per cent of the dose of a typical raw herb formula. I have seen no

credible evidence that these pills are effective. Have you seen even

one study from China using these pills to treat an illness?

 

Warren

 

 

 

> > No. The raw herbs are cooked in a low pressure, low temperature

(less

> > than 212') system to prevent the volitile oils from being

damaged. From

> > here, you can take two roads. For teapills ( wan / pian ), this

liquid

> > is evaporated, ground, and rolled into pills. For granules (

chong ji

> > ), the liquid is sprayed onto binders (startch or the ground up

> > reminants of the extracted herbs) then evaporated and made into a

> > granule. Usually when people talk about 'powders', I think of

raw herbs

> > ground into powder (like the kind used in 'san' - drafts).

>

> Are you suggesting that manufactures use the same procedure for

> granulars and teapills? OR should I say same liquid concentration?

> This is hard to believe since teapills are incredibly lower in price

> and much less potent (IMO). could you, or someone elaborate on the

> difference in processes of these two? It seems modern granular

> technology is pretty high tech now...?? Thanx,

>

> -

>

>

> >

> > FWIW, I think it's possible that some of the ineffectiveness

people have

> > had from teapills is due to using 'off-brand' type pills. I used

to

> > just go to Chinatown in Vancouver or Seattle and buy my stuff. In

> > Vancouver, it was super cheap - like $1.50 CDN for a bottle of

Gui Pi

> > Wan or the like (about $1 USD). However, those formulas rarely

worked

> > well. I hated them. It's amazing that people would bother making

> > knock-offs and sell them for a buck. When I got too lazy to

drive to

> > Vancouver to get herbs, I tried ordering some of the Min Shan /

Lan Zhou

> > Fo Ci pills, and had totally different results. Yin Qiao actually

> > worked for me, I was shocked! They've been around since 1929 and

make

> > more than 12 million pills per day, so I'm comfortable they know

what

> > they're doing.

> >

> > Geoff

> >

> > > __________

> > >

> > > Message: 13

> > > Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:32:36 -0000

> > > " bcataiji " <bcaom@c...>

> > > Re: Teapills, granulars vs bulk

> > >

> > > Likewise, isn't it the residue that is used to make the

teapills? I

> > > wonder how much residue would come from a decotion of 100-150

grams of

> > > herbs vs. that of 48 tea pills (2 days worth).

[Guest guest]

As Jason just brought up,your description of how tea pills are made

doesn't make sense. It's my understanding that these pills are made

from raw herbs that have been ground up into a very fine powder and

then coated.

>>>Not true some are cooked but usually not concentrated. Some are done from raw

powders.

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon:

If you believe some are cooked , please tell me exactly which ones

are cooked.(Just exercising critical thinking)

Warren

> >>>Not true some are cooked but usually not concentrated. Some are

done from raw powders.

> Alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

This process is not designed to prevent volatile oils from being

damaged. It modern systems these oils are captured as they evaporate

off (which occurs early in cooking) and reintroduced to the

powder/granules at a later stage of production.

>>>>Shenchang has two systems. One is just as you said, the other is law temp

continual washing which can extract much higher % of the ingredients without

loosing the oils

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

That second method sounds interesting. Anywhere I can get more info on

this company and its products?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

On 06/02/2004, at 4:06 AM, Alon Marcus wrote:

 

> This process is not designed to prevent volatile oils from being

> damaged. It modern systems these oils are captured as they evaporate

> off (which occurs early in cooking) and reintroduced to the

> powder/granules at a later stage of production.

>>>>> Shenchang has two systems. One is just as you said, the other is

>>>>> law temp continual washing which can extract much higher % of the

>>>>> ingredients without loosing the oils

> Alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is a link on herb preparation from itmonline.org (Subhuti)

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/methprep.htm

 

Warren

 

> As Jason just brought up,your description of how tea pills are made

> doesn't make sense. It's my understanding that these pills are made

> from raw herbs that have been ground up into a very fine powder and

> then coated.

> >>>Not true some are cooked but usually not concentrated. Some are

done from raw powders.

> Alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

Alon:

If you believe some are cooked , please tell me exactly which ones

are cooked.(Just exercising critical thinking)

Warren

>>>>I know that the ones that bioessence sales are, and i think mingshen is as

well. The honey pills that quliherbs sales are not. They are made from raw herbs

alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Geoffrey Hudson "

<list@a...> wrote:

> No. The raw herbs are cooked in a low pressure, low temperature (less

> than 212') system to prevent the volitile oils from being damaged. From

> here, you can take two roads. For teapills ( wan / pian ), this liquid

> is evaporated, ground, and rolled into pills. For granules ( chong

 

 

Thanks for the informatino about the making of teapills. You were the

first to give an answer.

 

 

> FWIW, I think it's possible that some of the ineffectiveness people have

> had from teapills is due to using 'off-brand' type pills. I used to

> just go to Chinatown in Vancouver or Seattle and buy my stuff. In

 

 

I've had the same experience as you in this regard. This notion was

also one of the " questions " in my original post on this topic. Again,

you were the first to respond.

 

Brian C. Allen

[Guest guest]

Alon:

Bioessence sells only to licensed health care practitioners.I was

referring to tea pills, which are available over the counter and (too)

widely used by TCM practitioners in the west.

Warren

> Alon:

> If you believe some are cooked , please tell me exactly which ones

> are cooked.(Just exercising critical thinking)

> Warren

> >>>>I know that the ones that bioessence sales are, and i think

mingshen is as well. The honey pills that quliherbs sales are not.

They are made from raw herbs

> alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

minshen i think sells to the public. so does nuherbs and theirs is not powered

Alon