Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Todd et al, For those who are interested, there is a wonderful little native plant (California, including the Baja, and Southwest Oregon) called Blue Curls (Trichostema lanceolata, T. laxum the former is sometimes called Vinegar Weed, the later Turpentine Weed) that I have found to be quite efficacious in acute asthma attacks. I honestly have no idea how it works, but it does, to a greater of lesser extent in nearly all patients. Most patients report a 8-10 (on a 0-10 scale) attack improved to a 2-4 within 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Repeated doses are sometimes needed. It is not stimulating, in a general way and I have taken patients' blood pressure after taking the medicine and not seen a rise. Admittedly I have only done this twice, but there was no change. One was during a minor attack, rated a 3-4 and the other during a moderate attack, rated a 6. The medicinal is prepared as a fresh plant tincture (1:2 in straight ethanol) and taken with a small amount of warm water (1-3 tbsp). The water was an addition by the second patient I tried in on and she reported that it was more efficacious when taken in this manner, so I have recommended it this way ever since, about ten years now. This a great way to give a patient an alternative to those nasty steroidal inhalers, and even if they have to use them, they can be used with much less frequency. thomas Chinese Herbology and Acupuncture acupuncture and herbal information " Knowing nothing, you will be aware of everything. " Lao Tzu - Monday, February 16, 2004 12:54 PM Digest Number 1891 > > There are 5 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Anyone out there? > Julie Chambers <info > 2. RE: Jet Lag > " Tim Sharpe " <listserve > 3. Re: acute asthma treatment > " " < > 4. traction > < > 5. Re: Re: acute asthma treatment > " " <zrosenbe > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:39:41 -0700 > Julie Chambers <info > Anyone out there? > > Dear Group, > > I have received zero messages today (Sunday) -- so unusual., I am wondering > if there is a system malfunction. > > Julie > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:22:23 -0600 > " Tim Sharpe " <listserve > RE: Jet Lag > > Thomas, at the PCOM symposium in '98(?) Dan Bensky explained a method to > prevent Jet Lag by in-flight needling according to the Chinese clock. It > was too long ago for me to remember, but if someone took notes at his talk > then they may be able to post his tip. He claimed to have learned it from a > Chiro of all people. > > -Tim Sharpe > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 3 > Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:32:09 -0000 > " " < > Re: acute asthma treatment > > , " Bob Flaws " < > pemachophel2001> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry my reply pushed some buttons, but it is tiring, irksome, and > frustrating when such simple issues raise all sorts of uncessary > > wheel-spinning. This is exactly why I and others harp on the utility, nay > necessity, of learning to read and study this stuff in its original > > language. This kind of question is basically a non-issue in Chinese. > > > that was not really my point here. I am a strong supporter of learning to read > chinese, despite my personal struggles with the material. In fact, knowing > what I know now, I would not have studied CM w/o first studying chinese or > Iwould have done something else instead. But here I am with patients, > struggling to understand and give good care. > > However, despite your assertion about reading chinese, it is definitely > possible to read about asthma in chinese and walk away thinking something > else than what you put forth as consensus. Keep in mind I agree with you > about this consensus, but I have also identified other sources that dispute > your claim about wind and asthma. and this whole thread got started because > a chinese student who can read chinese natively disputed my presentation of > acute asthma. she defended herself by quoting from the zhong yi da ci dian in > class. I believe she was wrong in her assessment of the information, but how > can I make my case when the mere fact she reads chinese gives her > precedence over me. And I reiterate. she was wrong. > > My point is solely that reading chinese is no panacea all by itself. It takes > more than that. Sometimes I think those who read chinese use that fact to > silence further discussion (like this student in class). So lets get on the same > page here. If you are not exceptionally intelligent and do not have good > teachers, reading chinese alone will not make you good at CM. On the other > hand, if you are exceptionally intelligent and have good teachers, those will > serve you better than merely having the language skills. Do you disagree? > > Interestingly, in following up with this student, I explained to her that I had > little expereince treating acute asthma. Most patients would not give up their > inhalers and there was no regular opportunity to really address the issue of > acute asthma with chinese herbs. Albuterol inhalers can be considered part of > an herbal formula and are probably no more harmful than daily use of ma > huang, IMO. I mostly work with chronic asthma in the remission stage and > have seen quite a few cases go into remission long term. This chinese student > was horrified that I did not have more FAITH in TCM.. She couldn't care less > about my experience or my perspective that CM would be best used as a form > of complementary and NOT alternative medicine. And she could not understand > why as an asthmatic patient would not want to wait for a tea to boil or a pill > to enter the bloodstream when they are wheezing severely. This idealistic > fantasy land perspective will be the death of CM in america if it prevails. > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 4 > Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:03:38 -0800 > < > traction > > Anyone have a cervical traction unit for sale. Used pantheon > microcurrent machine? > > And related to this subject, Alon tells me that cervical injuries do > not seem to get faster any better using alternative therapies. > Exercise and traction works best. I am particularly interested in the > use of herbs to help. At PCOM, we use potent liniments applied wet, > covered with plastic and a hot pack. I have found these liniments with > microcurrent seem to help even when acupuncture and internal herbs seem > ineffective. In other words, the results are lasting and progressive, > not just palliative. Other experiences with this? Alon says the AAOM > will soon begin examining and awarding board certification in physical > med. I hope external herbs will be part of this. > > > Chinese Herbs > > > FAX: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 At 4:41 PM -0800 2/16/04, wrote: >For those who are interested, there is a wonderful little native plant >(California, including the Baja, and Southwest Oregon) called Blue Curls >(Trichostema lanceolata, T. laxum the former is sometimes called Vinegar >Weed, the later Turpentine Weed) that I have found to be quite efficacious >in acute asthma attacks. I honestly have no idea how it works, but it does, >to a greater of lesser extent in nearly all patients. Most patients report a >8-10 (on a 0-10 scale) attack improved to a 2-4 within 30 seconds to 2 >minutes. Repeated doses are sometimes needed. It is not stimulating, in a >general way and I have taken patients' blood pressure after taking the >medicine and not seen a rise. Admittedly I have only done this twice, but >there was no change. One was during a minor attack, rated a 3-4 and the >other during a moderate attack, rated a 6. > >The medicinal is prepared as a fresh plant tincture (1:2 in straight >ethanol) and taken with a small amount of warm water (1-3 tbsp). The water >was an addition by the second patient I tried in on and she reported that it >was more efficacious when taken in this manner, so I have recommended it >this way ever since, about ten years now. > >This a great way to give a patient an alternative to those nasty steroidal >inhalers, and even if they have to use them, they can be used with much less >frequency. -0- Thomas, This is interesting, but you provide no references. Please could let us know where the above data can be found, and the source for the original idea idea that Blue Curls can be used in this way. TIA, Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Thomas, Doing a little Internet sleuthing, I see that Trichostema l. is a member of the Labatiae or mint family. Besides vinegar and turpentine weed, it is also known as camphor weed. From the foregoing,I think it is safe to say that it contains aromatic oils which are bronchodilating. In Chinese medicine, one emergency method for treating asthma is to inhale hot vinegar fumes, and we all know that asthma can be helped by Vick's Vaporub (camphor, borneol, or something very similar; perhaps menthol, as in Mentholatum) and turpentine compresses (as in the active ingredients in Nodus Pini, Song Jie). Looks like we could say, similar to Camphor (Zhang Nao), that Trichostema is acrid (warm, hot, cool, or cold?) and that it aromatically and penetratingly expels wind, opens the orifices, eliminates turbidity, and quickens the blood. If so, and the foregoing is merely a preliminary hypothesis, it would not be hard to see why it is effective for the treatment of asthma. While the minor specifics of the Chinese medical description of Trichostema l. might turn out to be different, they probably aren't going to be hugely different. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 , " " < @e...> wrote: > The medicinal is prepared as a fresh plant tincture (1:2 in straight > ethanol) and taken with a small amount of warm water (1-3 tbsp). thomas thanks. I thought alcohol or liquid extract might be an effective way to deliver an antiasthmatic herb. did the chinese have any alcoholic asthma preparations? There is no way water decotion would work fast enough in a true stage 3 emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 , " Bob Flaws " < pemachophel2001> wrote: > Doing a little Internet sleuthing, I see that Trichostema l. is a member of the Labatiae or mint family. Besides vinegar and turpentine > weed, it is also known as camphor weed. From the foregoing,I think it is safe to say that it contains aromatic oils which are > bronchodilating. In Chinese medicine, one emergency method for treating asthma is to inhale hot vinegar fumes, and we all know that > asthma can be helped by Vick's Vaporub (camphor, borneol, or something very similar; perhaps menthol, as in Mentholatum) interesting, espcialy the use of inhalant therapy for asthma. I just have to point out that the inhalation of aromatics is probably suitable for some, but not all asthma. I suspect they would be best in asthma caused by reasons other than infection or sudden allergy. These reasons are the most likely cause of true emergency asthma, I think. if we are talking about phelgm, cold or stress, I can see their efficacy. Many do, of course, dispel exterior wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 In Chinese medicine, one emergency method for treating asthma is to inhale hot vinegar fumes, and we all know that >>>Bob there is also an herb that is smocked in TCM which i forget the name of and which became a WM therapy as well. Do you know the name? Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Lobelia? > In Chinese medicine, one emergency method for treating asthma is to inhale hot vinegar fumes, and we all know that > >>>Bob there is also an herb that is smocked in TCM which i forget the name of and which became a WM therapy as well. Do you know the name? > Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I belive it is kuan dong hua- Tussilgo or coltsfoot flower, but I think that is used for emphysema. Jill , <snakeoil.works@m...> wrote: > Lobelia? > > > > In Chinese medicine, one emergency method for treating asthma is to inhale > hot vinegar fumes, and we all know that > > >>>Bob there is also an herb that is smocked in TCM which i forget the > name of and which became a WM therapy as well. Do you know the name? > > Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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