Food stagnation vs. Damp accumulation

[Guest guest]

What are the key signs to differentiate food stagnation vs. damp

accumulation in the middle jiao? The symptoms seem very similar. I

often use formulas that dry dampness and they seem to work well. I've

been hearing more and more patients using digestive enzymes (papaya and

pinaple variants) and therefore have been looking at the food stagnation

formulas with the digestive herbs. It seems like these patients are

feeling more energetic and are able to eat more variety than they could

have in the past. For instance - how would you compare & contrast the

use of Ping Wei San and Bao He Wan?

 

Geoff

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Mar 19, 2004, at 10:57 PM, Geoffrey Hudson wrote:

 

> What are the key signs to differentiate food stagnation vs. damp

> accumulation in the middle jiao?

 

I look for a dry coating with the food stagnation. Stagnation leads to

heat, which damages fluids leading to the dry, but often thick tongue

coating.

 

Also, with the food stagnation, you'll get your smelly signs. Burping,

flatulence with a strong odor, sour regurgitation, bad breath.

 

Dampness is not smelly, unless it gets hot. However most earth element

disharmonies can give rise to dampness as a secondary issue.

 

> how would you compare & contrast the

> use of Ping Wei San and Bao He Wan?

 

I use the Ping Wei San for a wet or cold Spleen and the Bao He Wan for

the dietary indiscretions.

 

Ping Wei San can also be for dietary problems, but specifically for the

cold-damp producing sort where Bao He Wan favors other dietary issues

such as excessive meat, fatty foods, or alcohol.

 

If there is a stress-induced issue at play as well, then we'd have to

factor that in as well, mostly looking at if the Liver is attacking the

Spleen causing metabolic problems or if the Liver is attacking the

Stomach/Intestines giving rise to peristalitic disorders, all of which

can generate more dampness and/or food stagnation.

 

-al.

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

Al,

Interesting - so you treat metabolisim issues as Liver / Spleen

disharmony? I've wondered how to treat patients with a slow

metabolism without obvious signs of other imbalances besides being

overwieght. I would assume using Spleen tonics might increase

weight and it seems that most of the Sp Xu Sx are indicated for

emaciation, not obesity. But - if you just drain damp, that doesn't

work well and the patients get dry.

 

Geoff

 

, Al Stone <alstone@b...>

wrote:

 

>

> If there is a stress-induced issue at play as well, then we'd have

to

> factor that in as well, mostly looking at if the Liver is

attacking the

> Spleen causing metabolic problems or if the Liver is attacking the

> Stomach/Intestines giving rise to peristalitic disorders, all of

which

> can generate more dampness and/or food stagnation.

>

> -al.

>

> --

>

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

> -Adlai Stevenson

[Guest guest]

On Mar 27, 2004, at 2:09 PM, yingsuke2002 wrote:

 

> Al,

> Interesting - so you treat metabolisim issues as Liver / Spleen

> disharmony?

 

Only when I see digestive problems that are stress induced.

 

I used the word " metabolic " to contrast that with " peristalitic "

meaning Liver/Spleen disharmony rather than Liver/Stomach disharmony.

 

> I've wondered how to treat patients with a slow

> metabolism without obvious signs of other imbalances besides being

> overwieght.

 

Yeah, I'm with you, but then we should also differentiate being

overweight and being unhealthy. I have talked to plenty of people with

a little extra baggage (weight) who ate right and exercised well, and

they're still overweight by some standards. When that happens, I just

give them some low-dosage tonics and send them on their ways. Health

comes first, weight loss comes second in my book.

 

My goal is to make fat people healthy, not to make fat people thin.

 

> I would assume using Spleen tonics might increase

> weight and it seems that most of the Sp Xu Sx are indicated for

> emaciation, not obesity. But - if you just drain damp, that doesn't

> work well and the patients get dry.

 

There are plenty of treatment principles in the treatment of

phlegm-damp accumulation such as draining through the urination or the

feces, transforming with aromatics, warming to address Yang

deficiencies, and even moving with Qi movers to disperse the

accumulations. Still, you're right, some overweight individuals simply

have no particular disharmony to harmonize. Can't give them all

diuretics.

 

If someone is dead set on losing weight, I can give them herbs to

stimulate some energy, but they have to use that energy to work-out

(and of course eat right). I'm not a big fan of the fat-burning

metabolic type protocols. I think that's dangerous for someone wearing

such a heavy coat (adipose tissue) to be heated up underneath unless of

course it is indicated with symptoms of cold, etc.

 

--

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

-Adlai Stevenson