Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 , " alon marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: if we are to study painful > > disorders than i would like to see functional capacity studied as it is more > > objective. For example, if we can show a higher return to work in work comp > > population that is an objective parameter and very significant finding. this is a very important point. So I would turn Brian's question around. If a patient reports decreased pain, but no gain in function, then what has changed. I think Brian assumed I was talking about some blood level one could measure for pain. While it is vital that the patient perceive less pain, I think if two patients report less pain, it is more accurate to assess orthopedic tests, ROM tests, medication changes and return to normal activities. Verbal reports of changes in pain, whether scaled or not, are completely inaccurate. A visual analog scale is better and a questionnaire better still. But functional assessments supposedly have the highest correlation with successful long term recovery. I do not know what type of assessments were used in the german study, but something gave me the impression they were pain questionnaires. but Alon is right. Even under the best of circumstances, the subjective study of pain is not where we want to stake our claims. I think it would be valuable to measure some kind of changes that occur during pain treatment such as on an fMRI and see if the same changes occur with differing or sham treatments. Early fMRI work seems to show some specificity in point function. In other words, some points activate particular parts of the brain and not others. The areas of activation seem to relate known point functions with known areas of brain control. In other words, the visual cortex becomes active when stimulating points for the eyes. See neuroacupuncture from qpuncture.com for more details (nice book, BTW). If this is true, one wonders whether the sham points were any body points or were they close to the actual body points used in the " real " group. It may be that acupuncture function is specific to general areas, if not precise points. In other words, not much difference between HT 5,6,7, but a big difference between HT 5 and SP2, for example. That is a lot different than a total sham. Especially with pain, often needling anywhere on the affected channel will have affects, whether an actual point or not. Also by tracking the treatments with fMRI's, we can see if one generalized thing is going on or different pathways are leading to the same overall effect on physiology. For example, it is hard to believe that a strongly local TCM style treatment elicits the same brain response as a japanese five phase treatment that uses only distal points with light stimulation. If acupuncture is a placebo, then the fMRI should be the same in all patients with the same disease regardless of points chosen. But let's say that a local treatment works by improving local circulation, relaxing local spasm and reducing local inflammation. Let's say the distal treatment works on higher level neuroendocrine control mechanisms. At the end of the treatment, I could see how both sets of pathways could lead to a decreased perception of pain. The fMRI would show that the needles had activated different parts of the brain. And perhaps a sham acupuncture treatment would show a third difference. This would prove real physiological changes occur that can explain sx relief. And while sham tx may get equal short term relief, we ened to do long trm followup and see what holds. I suspect " real " treatments have lasting effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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