religious vs. philosophical daoism

[Guest guest]

Most students of comparative religion are exposed to the idea of

philosophical vs. religious daoism. Bob brought up religious daoism in

his last post. The religious daoists were involved in fortune

telling, feng shui, astrology, various rituals, qi gong, martial arts,

immortality, external alchemy. Much of interest and medical value came

from these various pursuits, but more by chance than any cogent

rationale. In fact, the taoists loved to just experiment and eschewed

rational thought, according to unschuld. Much herbal lore came from

this daoist experimentation. But the uses of these herbs became truly

sophisticated in the hands of mainstream confucian docs who added a

layer of organization and interpretation to this hodgepodge of mystical

and folk uses. but the relationship of taoist priest healers to

mainstream confucian docs has probably always been like the

relationship between MDs and a wide range of new age healers. some

ideas were of value and entered mainstream chinese medicine and others

were always relegated to the fringe (not just by the communists, but by

the literate class of china for centuries before). the fact that

various religious pursuits occasionally lead to the development of

valuable health practices is probably just serendipity. It certainly

evokes no natural law. If it did, why the great disparity between the

" great religions " on matters of beef and pork and dairy and shellfish.

If you try every herb that supposedly gives longevity, you are bound to

stumble on to a few gems. If one wants to emulate this daoist approach

to healing, just be clear about what you are doing. Some may

characterize my position as removing spirit from TCM, but I say that

mainstream TCM has always been of this nature and those who embrace

this aspect are embracing an aspect more tied to religion than medicine

and not well represented in seminal texts.

 

Philosophical taoism is reflected in the works of lao tzu and chuang

tzu. Chuang tzu rails against the religious daoists who get lost in

divination and immortality seeking. Just more striving. Less

simplicity. Philosophical daoists were more oriented towards meditation

to free the mind from the constraints of normal socialization. They

sought experience of the dao by clearing the mind of such limitations

so that the dao could be experienced without the fog of the conditioned

mind. there was no emphasis on physical longevity or health or vigor,

just freedom. there was no belief in reincarnation amongst many

daoists, especially before buddhism came to china. so the reward of

this mental freedom was in this world. However this approach to

meditation and the dao amongst daoists seems to have been motivated

somewhat by buddhism. Buddhism grants the ultimate reward as relief

from suffering. Some transcendent state where good and evil still

exist around and within, but one's consciousness is nondual. the dao

that can be named is not the dao. that really says it all. Adherents

of philosophical daoism know there is nothing to be said of the

ultimate dao (what some equate with god or spirit in the west). One

can achieve realization of the dao through practice, but only those who

share the common experience can really make sense of the words used by

sages in any tradition. If one has not known the dao, then it makes no

sense to speak of it. And then the words only apply to the eye of the

spirit as Ken Wilber terms it. The experience of the dao cannot be

translated into medicine. It is the dual manifestation of the dao as

yin and yang that forms the basis of chinese medical understanding, not

the grand ultimate itself. It is like the great spirit (dao) becomes

flesh in the form of yin and yang (all manifest nature is dualistic).

Like whatever came right before the big bang (dao) and then what came

immediately afterwards (yin and yang,[positive and negative particles

perhaps??], which over eons became the varied atoms that make up the

ten thousand things). The point is that on one hand, some questions

can only even be discussed with a mention of the spiritual and every

scientist knows it (such as the birth of the universe or the evolution

of life on earth). But on the other hand, the ultimate dao is the

source, beyond duality, not part of this world, though perhaps the

matrix [99% empty space??] in which the " solid world " exists.

 

To stay true to my understanding of philosophical daoist tradition,

this transcendent reality is beyond the touch of medicine. One must

actively use one's will to clear away the debris that clouds the true

dao. And then one can experience the freedom. But it does not make

pain or marital problems go away or even help in those areas at all.

And medicine cannot speed up the process of clearing the debris except

by making it easier to sit by getting rid of bodily pain and calming

and clearing the mind with heart herbs (but aspirin and caffeine work

for this, too, so nothing holistic here). Those with great physical

debilitation can advance spiritually and those with great vigor are

often blinded to the true nature of the spiritual by their very vigor.

There is just no linear connection between the two - health and

spirituality. Yogic lore speaks of the health benefits of yoga as

being the foundation so the body can endure the ravages of spiritual

development. Make the body strong so you can sacrifice it in the

spiritual quest. Many great yogis were deathly ill, ostensibly from

taking on the karma of their disciples (see autobiography of a yogi,

for example).

 

I do agree that the world is filled with people who have had no

experience of the dao (I don't know if I have had one, but I think

perhaps a brief satori here or there). And that is possibly a major

problem for moving forward as human beings on this planet. To see

beyond the duality or even accept the concept would tear right at the

differences that drive people to war or personal violence, the cause of

far more suffering than all diseases combined. but separation from god

is not the reason people experience personal illness, IMO. It might be

why they do insane things like live on ho-ho's, though. And while

widespread experience of the nondual could be healing for the planet

and for an individual's acceptance of their own impending unavoidable

death (a type of healing, I suppose), I believe the same goal can be

achieved by rational means with no resort to mystical explanations. If

one is only comforted by the thought of heaven or reincarnation,

perhaps there is no rational alternative to some sort of faith.

 

Perhaps being jewish, a religion where neither of these ideas (heaven

or reincarnation) carries much weight, makes me more comfortable with a

philosophy (philosophical daoism) that does not postulate about the

afterlife (as do all branches of christianity, buddhism, islam and

hinduism). I guess you just assume you live a decent life and you

won't suffer as a result. that's about all. Rationally, it makes no

sense to kill in a free society with laws. I could not pursue my

freedom if killing was not constrained for everyone. Any rational

person would have to agree The fear of imminent death would make any

real progress impossible. Now I am being idealistic here, since I know

also that most folks need the fear of god or law to keep them on the

straight and narrow. but ultimately rational thought must be the

answer to moral dilemmas, not the fear of the current god or state.

Only an enlightened state of rationality ends violence on a large scale.

 

certainly the widespread religiosity in america is no help for the

violence. In largely secular western europe, violence and the thrill

for it are much less than over here. I fear that by suggesting that a

cure for america or the world's ills rests in some sort of spiritual

conversion rather than a conversion to rational thinking is fraught

with great risk. We already live in a culture where the some people

think that if we all had the proper religion, everything would be

peachy. I think we play right into the hands of the least enlightened

when we agree that the problems of the world are all ultimately

spiritual, even if we do not agree with their version of god. Because

religion and politics both depend on most people not thinking for

themselves and just following on faith (now I am not talking to any of

you religious intellectuals on this list; you know the sheep to whom I

refer). So one looks around and rather than seeing an irrational world

that needs clear thinking, one see one devoid of the correct version of

spirituality that needs chinese metaphysics to set them straight. All

you need is faith. that's the last thing you need. skepticism will

serve you much better.

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

FAX: