Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 It's odd yes, this DAOM. But in defense, the TCM educational establishment is caught between forces of the Medical Association and the desire of the practitioners to have an advanced clinical education. Actually our system (in California) goes like 2 or 4 years of undergraduate, 4 years of masters and 2-3 years of PhD. (I think most schools will soon or do require now the 4 years of Bachelors.) I don't know if this addresses your concerns. Will Morris, often on this group, should be able to clarify (in detail) the DAOM as he is director of one program in California. doug , dragonslive@h... wrote: > > I don't understand the USA and its education standards....in many ways > they are like a 3rd world in this regard. A Doctorate in TCM that is > not a PhD? What on earth is that? It is not internationally acceptable > that is for sure. > > If I want to do a doctorate in Australia (or China), I must complete 4 > or 5 years study at bachelor level, a further 2 years at masters, and > then 3 years for a doctorate. That is at least 9 years tertiary study. > > IMHO, the US needs some serious shake up with it's TCM education. Only > then will these other issues be dealt with. > > What about those who make a living already without formal education? > ...... > > Australia had a 2 year " Grand-parenting " policy for such individuals to > apply for exemption of the formal education requirements for > registration if they could document a history of safe practice and > education. After this time, only formally educated graduates from > endorsed Universities would be accepted. > > No policy is perfect for everyone, but you need to start > somewhere..........the recent US TCM doctorate is a disturbing joke to > me; and to the rest of the TCM world. Why not start with a REAL > bachelor degree basic education and endorse these graduates while also > considering a grand-parenting process for the existing practitioners? > > Impossible probably due to the in-fighting between associations and > those who control these that may not be qualified themselves. I do not > envy those of you who are serious, objective and have years of TCM > study and practice behind you and who must suffer these fools who > destroy the credibility of our global profession. > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Thanks for helping me understand this Doug. How much of this process of Bachelor, Masters, PhD is all TCM or related studies? Can one have a bachelor in another discipline and then get a masters in TCM? etc.... And is the Bachelor level study equivalent to a TCM Bachelor Degree in China? (4 years AC or 5 years TCM). This is where my concern lies. A 4 or 5 year Bachelor in TCM and related western medical studies it the standard in China and Australia (perhaps elsewhere too). Masters and PhD are extensions of this foundation; not a separate degree for those with a general Science or other Bachelor Education. A 3 year masters with another degree behind them is NOT 7 or 8 years TCM, is it 3. Best Wishes, Steve On 04/07/2004, at 1:05 AM, wrote: > It's odd yes, this DAOM. But in defense, the TCM educational > establishment is caught > between forces of the Medical Association and the desire of the > practitioners to have an > advanced clinical education. Actually our system (in California) goes > like 2 or 4 years of > undergraduate, 4 years of masters and 2-3 years of PhD. (I think most > schools will soon or > do require now the 4 years of Bachelors.) I don't know if this > addresses your concerns. > Will Morris, often on this group, should be able to clarify (in > detail) the DAOM as he is > director of one program in California. > > doug > > , dragonslive@h... wrote: > > > > > I don't understand the USA and its education standards....in many > ways > > they are like a 3rd world in this regard. A Doctorate in TCM that is > > not a PhD? What on earth is that? It is not internationally > acceptable > > that is for sure. > > > > If I want to do a doctorate in Australia (or China), I must > complete 4 > > or 5 years study at bachelor level, a further 2 years at masters, > and > > then 3 years for a doctorate. That is at least 9 years tertiary > study. > > > > IMHO, the US needs some serious shake up with it's TCM education. > Only > > then will these other issues be dealt with. > > > > What about those who make a living already without formal education? > > ...... > > > > Australia had a 2 year " Grand-parenting " policy for such > individuals to > > apply for exemption of the formal education requirements for > > registration if they could document a history of safe practice and > > education. After this time, only formally educated graduates from > > endorsed Universities would be accepted. > > > > No policy is perfect for everyone, but you need to start > > somewhere..........the recent US TCM doctorate is a disturbing joke > to > > me; and to the rest of the TCM world. Why not start with a REAL > > bachelor degree basic education and endorse these graduates while > also > > considering a grand-parenting process for the existing > practitioners? > > > > Impossible probably due to the in-fighting between associations and > > those who control these that may not be qualified themselves. I do > not > > envy those of you who are serious, objective and have years of TCM > > study and practice behind you and who must suffer these fools who > > destroy the credibility of our global profession. > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 In the USA , the bachelor's will have nothing to do with medicine in any fo= rm. (I have an Masters in Art, which I use to great effect everyday in the clinic. :-) ) = So at least in California there is no " bachelors " in TCM. I think we need to hear from people who actually are from China. But from w= hat I get from my collegues is that yes, they started at 16, 17 or 18 on their education i= n TCM but that also includes many of the normal liberal arts and sciences classes that we = in the West have for the Bachelors. What I realized when visiting China is that their " bachelors " had about the= same educations as us " masters " . The big difference is that in China the selection process = is very, very rigorous and students know that they will be in the profession for life. No= one will be let in who has a problem studying or other complaints we hear from students here. = No ADD students. Since less than 4 percent of all Chinese go to any college then t= hese guys take it serious. Most schools are residential so more of student life is devoted to studyi= ng as opposed to the USA where we tend to go in addition to jobs, family etc.... I think thi= s makes the biggest difference as well as the hospital access. Having a bachelor's will= allow one in China to work in an out-patient hospital ward or a small community and/or w= orkplace clinic. The Masters is where one becomes an MD with the Western Education t= o prescibe medications. The best will then go on to residencies and specialities in a = TCM hospital. Alot of Chinese look (down) at their own Doctorate's as being (overly) excl= usively involved with research and away from clinical and patient care. So yes, a Masters here is not a 7 year education but I think that our 4 yea= r Masters is basically equal to their bachelors. doug , dragonslive@h... wrote: > Thanks for helping me understand this Doug. > > How much of this process of Bachelor, Masters, PhD is all TCM or > related studies? Can one have a bachelor in another discipline and then > get a masters in TCM? etc.... And is the Bachelor level study > equivalent to a TCM Bachelor Degree in China? (4 years AC or 5 years > TCM). > > This is where my concern lies. A 4 or 5 year Bachelor in TCM and > related western medical studies it the standard in China and Australia > (perhaps elsewhere too). Masters and PhD are extensions of this > foundation; not a separate degree for those with a general Science or > other Bachelor Education. A 3 year masters with another degree behind > them is NOT 7 or 8 years TCM, is it 3. > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > > On 04/07/2004, at 1:05 AM, wrote: > > > It's odd yes, this DAOM. But in defense, the TCM educational > > establishment is caught > > between forces of the Medical Association and the desire of the > > practitioners to have an > > advanced clinical education. Actually our system (in California) goes = > > like 2 or 4 years of > > undergraduate, 4 years of masters and 2-3 years of PhD. (I think most = > > schools will soon or > > do require now the 4 years of Bachelors.) I don't know if this > > addresses your concerns. > > Will Morris, often on this group, should be able to clarify (in > > detail) the DAOM as he is > > director of one program in California. > > > > doug > > > > , dragonslive@h... wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't understand the USA and its education standards....in many > > ways > > > they are like a 3rd world in this regard. A Doctorate in TCM that is= > > > not a PhD? What on earth is that? It is not internationally > > acceptable > > > that is for sure. > > > > > > If I want to do a doctorate in Australia (or China), I must > > complete 4 > > > or 5 years study at bachelor level, a further 2 years at masters, > > and > > > then 3 years for a doctorate. That is at least 9 years tertiary > > study. > > > > > > IMHO, the US needs some serious shake up with it's TCM education. > > Only > > > then will these other issues be dealt with. > > > > > > What about those who make a living already without formal education?= > > > ...... > > > > > > Australia had a 2 year " Grand-parenting " policy for such > > individuals to > > > apply for exemption of the formal education requirements for > > > registration if they could document a history of safe practice and > > > education. After this time, only formally educated graduates from > > > endorsed Universities would be accepted. > > > > > > No policy is perfect for everyone, but you need to start > > > somewhere..........the recent US TCM doctorate is a disturbing joke = > > to > > > me; and to the rest of the TCM world. Why not start with a REAL > > > bachelor degree basic education and endorse these graduates while > > also > > > considering a grand-parenting process for the existing > > practitioners? > > > > > > Impossible probably due to the in-fighting between associations and > > > those who control these that may not be qualified themselves. I do > > not > > > envy those of you who are serious, objective and have years of TCM > > > study and practice behind you and who must suffer these fools who > > > destroy the credibility of our global profession. > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Thanks Doug, This is my point.........it is at most a Bachelors degree; there is NO excuse for calling it a masters in my eyes. What ever happened to having more than one Bachelors degree? It that too honest an outcome? Best Wishes, Steve On 04/07/2004, at 8:02 AM, wrote: > In the USA , the bachelor's will have nothing to do with medicine in > any fo= > rm. (I have an > Masters in Art, which I use to great effect everyday in the clinic. > :-) ) = > So at least in > California there is no " bachelors " in TCM. > ...... > ..... So yes, a Masters here is not a 7 year education but I think > that our 4 yea= > r Masters is > basically equal to their bachelors. > > doug Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 But most Master's degrees are 2 year programs. A Master's implies a special= ity whereas a Bachelor's degree is an overall education with at most a two year focus on = a major. Soon most schools will require a general liberal arts bachelor's degree before e= ntering the Masters programs. So while you may see that in the USA we are cheating by c= alling it a Masters, I see that the overall education is equal (if not superior) if you= consider that there is value in the liberal arts training before the TCM part. And quite frankl= y I think that older students are, in general, better than the younger ones at doing the medicin= e. In China, the structure allows an infinite amount of mentoring until junior doctors becom= e experienced. I have a feeling that most of the Masters designation is because of Federal= financial assistance. It would be very hard to get Government Loans to earn a second = Bachelor's degree. In the last 15 years, TCM education has grown and improved 100 fold= in the USA. As a teacher now I'm not really concerned with what the degree is called. I= just have to figure out ways to improve on what and how I teach. Luckily I'm not an admi= nistrator who has to manage a number of agendas like a Rubrik cube of teachers, students = and Boards of Trustees. doug , dragonslive@h... wrote: > Thanks Doug, > > This is my point.........it is at most a Bachelors degree; there is NO > excuse for calling it a masters in my eyes. What ever happened to > having more than one Bachelors degree? It that too honest an outcome? > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > > On 04/07/2004, at 8:02 AM, wrote: > > > In the USA , the bachelor's will have nothing to do with medicine in > > any fo= > > rm. (I have an > > Masters in Art, which I use to great effect everyday in the clinic. > > :-) ) = > > So at least in > > California there is no " bachelors " in TCM. > > > ..... > > > > ..... So yes, a Masters here is not a 7 year education but I think > > that our 4 yea= > > r Masters is > > basically equal to their bachelors. > > > > doug > Dr. Steven J Slater > Practitioner and Acupuncturist > Mobile: 0418 343 545 > chinese_medicine@m... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Doug, I am not arguing that this maybe the way it is done in the USA. My point is that it is not TCM education as it should be or is in the place of its birth. You can argue about liberal education until the cows come home; but this does not address the simple fact that TCM " IS " a specialty, not a generality when compared to an Arts degree. A specialty that requires more than 2 years study. Saying an individual who has a liberal arts degree has knowledge equal to or has some advantage in TCM knowledge after a 2 years masters when compared to a 5 year Bachelor of TCM is deluded. The fact is that at least 30% of a TCM education is western medical science, approximately 50-60% TCM and 10% " Liberal " . An individual with a Bachelors of Medical Science has a place to stand with an additional 2 years TCM only Study. ANY individual without it has no place being in such a 2 year course. The truth is that TCM is China and Australia is NOT at arts degree; it is a specialist science degree with a very limited component in arts, politics or " liberal " electives. It therefore, resembles a degree in Medicine. Do you suggest that a 2 years masters program is sufficient to educate an individual to MD status if they have a previous Arts degree? I don't think so. TCM is a species of medical degree, pure and simple. Those who argue it is somehow less demanding or serious are the ones who should not be in the profession. I am sure some will see me as being elitist etc. I don't care what label those who do not see the seriousness and complexity of a TCM education as it is outside the US. Arguing " this is how we do it in the USA " is irrelevant to the actual suitability of the outcome. I agree with you that financial support is a serious and important issue. This is why in Australia TCM is an undergraduate program in University alongside all others including Law and Medicine which has a high academic requirement for entry and a liberal intake for " mature-aged " students who are drawn to it. However, these individuals must make the extra monetary sacrifices to get this second " bachelor " . That is life, it is tough and weeds out those who may think it is " cool " or " license to make money " to study TCM Best Wishes, Steve On 04/07/2004, at 6:21 PM, wrote: > But most Master's degrees are 2 year programs. A Master's implies a > special= > ity whereas a > Bachelor's degree is an overall education with at most a two year > focus on = > a major. Soon > most schools will require a general liberal arts bachelor's degree > before e= > ntering the > Masters programs. So while you may see that in the USA we are > cheating by c= > alling it a > Masters, I see that the overall education is equal (if not superior) > if you= > consider that there > is value in the liberal arts training before the TCM part. And quite > frankl= > y I think that older > students are, in general, better than the younger ones at doing the > medicin= > e. In China, the > structure allows an infinite amount of mentoring until junior doctors > becom= > e experienced. > > I have a feeling that most of the Masters designation is because of > Federal= > financial > assistance. It would be very hard to get Government Loans to earn a > second = > Bachelor's > degree. In the last 15 years, TCM education has grown and improved > 100 fold= > in the USA. > As a teacher now I'm not really concerned with what the degree is > called. I= > just have to > figure out ways to improve on what and how I teach. Luckily I'm not > an admi= > nistrator who > has to manage a number of agendas like a Rubrik cube of teachers, > students = > and Boards > of Trustees. > > doug > Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Personally, I think a four year TCM education should be treated more like a four year M.D. education. It is not an academic degree, and therefore should not be designated as either a master's or a second bachelor's. Admissions requirements should be stringent, admitting only the " cream of the crop " students who have completed a bachelor's and who have demonstrated proficient knowledge in general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, gross anatomy, physiology, and Eastern philosophies. The focus of the TCM coursework should be on the amount of information learned (and ability of students to effectively treat people) rather than number of hours spent in the classroom. Graduation from the four year program should be followed by a residency of some kind. dragonslive wrote:Doug, I am not arguing that this maybe the way it is done in the USA. My point is that it is not TCM education as it should be or is in the place of its birth. You can argue about liberal education until the cows come home; but this does not address the simple fact that TCM " IS " a specialty, not a generality when compared to an Arts degree. A specialty that requires more than 2 years study. Saying an individual who has a liberal arts degree has knowledge equal to or has some advantage in TCM knowledge after a 2 years masters when compared to a 5 year Bachelor of TCM is deluded. The fact is that at least 30% of a TCM education is western medical science, approximately 50-60% TCM and 10% " Liberal " . An individual with a Bachelors of Medical Science has a place to stand with an additional 2 years TCM only Study. ANY individual without it has no place being in such a 2 year course. The truth is that TCM is China and Australia is NOT at arts degree; it is a specialist science degree with a very limited component in arts, politics or " liberal " electives. It therefore, resembles a degree in Medicine. Do you suggest that a 2 years masters program is sufficient to educate an individual to MD status if they have a previous Arts degree? I don't think so. TCM is a species of medical degree, pure and simple. Those who argue it is somehow less demanding or serious are the ones who should not be in the profession. I am sure some will see me as being elitist etc. I don't care what label those who do not see the seriousness and complexity of a TCM education as it is outside the US. Arguing " this is how we do it in the USA " is irrelevant to the actual suitability of the outcome. I agree with you that financial support is a serious and important issue. This is why in Australia TCM is an undergraduate program in University alongside all others including Law and Medicine which has a high academic requirement for entry and a liberal intake for " mature-aged " students who are drawn to it. However, these individuals must make the extra monetary sacrifices to get this second " bachelor " . That is life, it is tough and weeds out those who may think it is " cool " or " license to make money " to study TCM Best Wishes, Steve On 04/07/2004, at 6:21 PM, wrote: > But most Master's degrees are 2 year programs. A Master's implies a > special= > ity whereas a > Bachelor's degree is an overall education with at most a two year > focus on = > a major. Soon > most schools will require a general liberal arts bachelor's degree > before e= > ntering the > Masters programs. So while you may see that in the USA we are > cheating by c= > alling it a > Masters, I see that the overall education is equal (if not superior) > if you= > consider that there > is value in the liberal arts training before the TCM part. And quite > frankl= > y I think that older > students are, in general, better than the younger ones at doing the > medicin= > e. In China, the > structure allows an infinite amount of mentoring until junior doctors > becom= > e experienced. > > I have a feeling that most of the Masters designation is because of > Federal= > financial > assistance. It would be very hard to get Government Loans to earn a > second = > Bachelor's > degree. In the last 15 years, TCM education has grown and improved > 100 fold= > in the USA. > As a teacher now I'm not really concerned with what the degree is > called. I= > just have to > figure out ways to improve on what and how I teach. Luckily I'm not > an admi= > nistrator who > has to manage a number of agendas like a Rubrik cube of teachers, > students = > and Boards > of Trustees. > > doug > Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I agree with alot of what you say. In California, the Master's for most students is a 4 year program. Half is Western Sciences and then the rest is TCM including a little philosophy, TCM history etc... Last year more hours were added and they were more in Western Medicine. Frankly I think we are headed in the other way where we are going to end up with a 5 year Masters Program. Nationally, there are/were programs that only taught acupuncture and no herbs. There were 2 year programs but they are being expanded from what I hear. The States with 4 year programs teach both herbs and acupuncture. Arguments have been made that with the Western Medicine requirements this leaves too little time with either. I have also heard that Chinese Students don't leave with all that great a knowledge of herbs. This is of course where most of our students have problems (and often why they drop out in the second year of school). The Chinese have advantages of the language, to begin with, but the bachelor who comes out of their program may not be all that much superior to our Masters. I think the days of the casual student are over. Some may come in with that attitude but few leave with it. Either they have dropped out or changed along the way. Our schools are basically like private " trade " schools like learning computers or auto repair. Can I assume that the Australian schools are funded by the public? Eventully we will see the Medical Univerities making a speciality out of Complementary Alternative Medicine (including TCM) but that may be decades away. doug (I'm sorry, if seems to be making my posts look all funky again) , dragonslive@h... wrote: > Doug, > > I am not arguing that this maybe the way it is done in the USA. My > point is that it is not TCM education as it should be or is in the > place of its birth. > > You can argue about liberal education until the cows come home; but > this does not address the simple fact that TCM " IS " a specialty, not a > generality when compared to an Arts degree. > A specialty that requires more than 2 years study. > > Saying an individual who has a liberal arts degree has knowledge equal > to or has some advantage in TCM knowledge after a 2 years masters when > compared to a 5 year Bachelor of TCM is deluded. The fact is that at > least 30% of a TCM education is western medical science, approximately > 50-60% TCM and 10% " Liberal " . > > An individual with a Bachelors of Medical Science has a place to stand > with an additional 2 years TCM only Study. ANY individual without it > has no place being in such a 2 year course. > > The truth is that TCM is China and Australia is NOT at arts degree; it > is a specialist science degree with a very limited component in arts, > politics or " liberal " electives. It therefore, resembles a degree in > Medicine. Do you suggest that a 2 years masters program is sufficient > to educate an individual to MD status if they have a previous Arts > degree? I don't think so. > > TCM is a species of medical degree, pure and simple. Those who argue it > is somehow less demanding or serious are the ones who should not be in > the profession. > > I am sure some will see me as being elitist etc. I don't care what > label those who do not see the seriousness and complexity of a TCM > education as it is outside the US. Arguing " this is how we do it in the > USA " is irrelevant to the actual suitability of the outcome. > > I agree with you that financial support is a serious and important > issue. This is why in Australia TCM is an undergraduate program in > University alongside all others including Law and Medicine which has a > high academic requirement for entry and a liberal intake for > " mature-aged " students who are drawn to it. However, these individuals > must make the extra monetary sacrifices to get this second " bachelor " . > That is life, it is tough and weeds out those who may think it is > " cool " or " license to make money " to study TCM > > Best Wishes, > > Steve > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Doug, We currently have 4 partially Government funded Universities with TCM programs. Partially as the student must take a " loan " for a standardized amount, depending on subject area, which is repaid once they reach a certain level of income. (BTW, the term University here is restricted to such government approved/accredited and regulated institutions as far as I know). The programs are 4 to 6 years (5 years for herbs and acu at same time) undergraduate programs, 4 years for either herbs or acu, then 1- 2 further years for the other (total 6 years). There are several private colleges who offer TCM herb or acupuncture programs at Bachelor level also (4 to 5 years). Australia is very close to setting in stone the course requirements for accredited TCM study if practitioners plan to register and use protected titles and have access to restricted herbs (Fu Zi, Ma Huang etc.). This model is almost identical to that of the Chinese 5 Year Herbal Degree. From my understanding, in China, acupuncture is only 4 years with minimal herbal studies (more patent orientated) and 5 years for herbal TCM (very little acupuncture). To tell you the truth, 5 years is not enough for Herbs and Acupuncture in my eyes. This is the path I studied and I left feeling ill prepared for clinical practice; especially in terms of complex individualization of herbal formula. Acupuncture is far simpler to learn on your feet in clinic as you can rely on the major points for most conditions until your skill and experience grow. I envisage TCM degrees here moving to 6 years with a longer clinical component moving more towards the Chinese Bachelor then Masters model. Incidentally, it is my understanding that in China, you can not get your little " red stamp " to practice without a Masters; and are not considered well qualified until you have a PhD. Best Wishes, On 05/07/2004, at 3:22 AM, wrote: > I agree with alot of what you say. In California, the Master's for > most students is a 4 year > program. Half is Western Sciences and then the rest is TCM including > a little philosophy, > TCM history etc... Last year more hours were added and they were more > in Western > Medicine. Frankly I think we are headed in the other way where we are > going to end up > with a 5 year Masters Program. > > Nationally, there are/were programs that only taught acupuncture and > no herbs. There > were 2 year programs but they are being expanded from what I hear. > The States with 4 > year programs teach both herbs and acupuncture. Arguments have been > made that with > the Western Medicine requirements this leaves too little time with > either. > > I have also heard that Chinese Students don't leave with all that > great a knowledge of > herbs. This is of course where most of our students have problems > (and often why they > drop out in the second year of school). The Chinese have advantages > of the language, to > begin with, but the bachelor who comes out of their program may not > be all that much > superior to our Masters. > > I think the days of the casual student are over. Some may come in > with that attitude but > few leave with it. Either they have dropped out or changed along the > way. > Our schools are basically like private " trade " schools like learning > computers or auto > repair. Can I assume that the Australian schools are funded by the > public? Eventully we will > see the Medical Univerities making a speciality out of Complementary > Alternative Medicine > (including TCM) but that may be decades away. > > doug > > (I'm sorry, if seems to be making my posts look all funky again) > Dr. Steven J Slater Practitioner and Acupuncturist Mobile: 0418 343 545 chinese_medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 , " " wrote: > I agree with alot of what you say. In California, the Master's for most students is a 4 year > program. Half is Western Sciences and then the rest is TCM including a little philosophy, > TCM history etc... Last year more hours were added and they were more in Western > Medicine. Frankly I think we are headed in the other way where we are The California that I live in is a bit different. PCOM's MSTOM program has about 3400 hours, taking almost 4 years. Western Science courses take up about 800 hours, less than 25% of the total. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Brian: This is a bit misleading. A huge percentage of your OM classes is covering western medicine. Warren Sheir ________________ The California that I live in is a bit different. PCOM's MSTOM program has about 3400 hours, taking almost 4 years. Western Science courses take up about 800 hours, less than 25% of the total. Brian C. Allen > , " " > wrote: > > I agree with alot of what you say. In California, the Master's for > most students is a 4 year > > program. Half is Western Sciences and then the rest is TCM including > a little philosophy, > > TCM history etc... Last year more hours were added and they were > more in Western > > Medicine. Frankly I think we are headed in the other way where we are > > The California that I live in is a bit different. PCOM's MSTOM > program has about 3400 hours, taking almost 4 years. Western Science > courses take up about 800 hours, less than 25% of the total. > > Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 , " wsheir " <wsheir> wrote: > > Brian: > This is a bit misleading. A huge percentage of your OM classes > is covering western medicine. > > Warren Sheir You are correct. I was not thinking of that at the time. However, only the OM classes taught by the America teachers cover Western medicine. The OM classes taught by the Chinese teachers are basically Chinese Herb classes, even though they are not supposed to be that way. Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 You are right... but I dare say that over half of total study time is spent on these Western Medicine classes. doug , " bcataiji " <bcaom@c...> wrote: > , " " > wrote: > > I agree with alot of what you say. In California, the Master's for > most students is a 4 year > > program. Half is Western Sciences and then the rest is TCM including > a little philosophy, > > TCM history etc... Last year more hours were added and they were > more in Western > > Medicine. Frankly I think we are headed in the other way where we are > > The California that I live in is a bit different. PCOM's MSTOM > program has about 3400 hours, taking almost 4 years. Western Science > courses take up about 800 hours, less than 25% of the total. > > Brian C. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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