Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 so which of the following is the key factor in recurring intractable illnesses and the secret to their cure? lurking pathogens blood stasis phlegm heavy metals yin fire essence vacuity hormone depletion toxins intestinal dysbiosis dampheat Chinese Herbs FAX: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hi Todd IMHO, all on your list are possible key factors. Each patient must be carefully diff'ly dx'd to sort out which are their particular key(s) and the weight each should assume in dx and tx. It ain't as easy as choosing one as a blanket easy choice for all cases. Shanna , wrote: > so which of the following is the key factor in recurring intractable > illnesses and the secret to their cure? > > > lurking pathogens > > blood stasis > > phlegm > > heavy metals > > yin fire > > essence vacuity > > hormone depletion > > toxins > > intestinal dysbiosis > > dampheat > > > > Chinese Herbs > > > FAX: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 , " shannahickle " <shannahickle> wrote: > Hi Todd > > IMHO, all on your list are possible key factors. Each patient must > be carefully diff'ly dx'd to sort out which are their particular > key(s) and the weight each should assume in dx and tx. It ain't as > easy as choosing one as a blanket easy choice for all cases. > > Shanna thanks for pointing that out. that never occurred to me. actually you missed the point of my post as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I guess I missed the point also. I assumed you were setting something up that Shanna simply addressed. doug , " " wrote: > , " shannahickle " <shannahickle> > wrote: > > Hi Todd > > > > IMHO, all on your list are possible key factors. Each patient must > > be carefully diff'ly dx'd to sort out which are their particular > > key(s) and the weight each should assume in dx and tx. It ain't as > > easy as choosing one as a blanket easy choice for all cases. > > > > Shanna > > > > thanks for pointing that out. that never occurred to me. > > actually you missed the point of my post as usual. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 I have seen all of these factors in the clinic, except, of course, for measuring such phenomena as heavy metals. For me, I see essence vacuity as a major underlying factor, but lurking pathogens, if you describe them in a broad format, seem to be very common. Miki Shima is now working with homotoxicology, the use of combination homeopathics, to work on lurking pathogens. If you go to his website www.mikishima.com you will find a description of his workshop on the subject. He is also presenting at the CSOMA forum in the fall. He seems to feel that such factors as vaccination, poor quality foods, environmental toxins, and iatrogenesis damage the channel system and lead to poor responsiveness to both environmental changes (weather, season, climate, stimuli of sound, light, noise) and traditional Chinese treatment methods such as acupuncture and herbal medicine. I don't agree with everything he is saying about homotoxicology at this point, but he has reached similar conclusions to Roger Wicke, it would seem to me on the general state of our patient population. I think some patients need a lot of time and coaxing to get them to respond, although I think our traditional treatment methods can and do work with patience. Getting back to essence vacuity, my experience is that long term use of steroids leads to damage to essence, blood, qi and the channel system, seriously limiting patient response to traditional treatment methods. It would be interesting to see if homotoxicology could help these patients. On Jul 4, 2004, at 9:56 AM, wrote: > so which of the following is the key factor in recurring intractable > illnesses and the secret to their cure? > > > lurking pathogens > > blood stasis > > phlegm > > heavy metals > > yin fire > > essence vacuity > > hormone depletion > > toxins > > intestinal dysbiosis > > dampheat > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Todd Sorry you have to continually put up with my ignorance about Chinese Medicine and my inability to ever grasp the points of your learned posts. However, I'll dig any hole, move any pile of rocks and stand in the rain as long as I'm asked by masters such as you in order to learn this medicine. I am a novice with only 2 1/2 years of experience and I don't expect to be right often anyway. So as I re-read your post and try much harder to glean the point from the few elegant words you posted I see " key " and " recurring " and " intractable " and " secret to cure " . I see now that perhaps you were referring to essence deficiency I think as the key factor. Blood stasis, phlegm, yin fire and damp heat might prove intractable but not necessarily recurring as they would probably cause degenerative changes and not tend to always go away and return. Lurking pathogens also seem to be a possibility as they usually create a recurring pattern though I'm not sure they would be particularly intractable once discovered, though they are deep and may take some extensive and careful treatment and the person could be left with degenerated health. I dare not comment on heavy metals, toxins, hormone depletion, or intestinal dysbiosis as they are not TCM terms and I don't have extensive experience in merging those kinds of diagnoses into my TCM understanding yet. As for the secret to curing, I think I'll wait to comment to see if I got the first part right---ouch! I am truly sorry I was so quick on the draw with this elegant question. I should know better to more carefully consider your exact meaning when you go to the trouble to ask a simple question. You got me! Shanna , " " wrote: > , " shannahickle " <shannahickle> > wrote: > > Hi Todd > > > > IMHO, all on your list are possible key factors. Each patient must > > be carefully diff'ly dx'd to sort out which are their particular > > key(s) and the weight each should assume in dx and tx. It ain't as > > easy as choosing one as a blanket easy choice for all cases. > > > > Shanna > > > > thanks for pointing that out. that never occurred to me. > > actually you missed the point of my post as usual. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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