hep C doses

[Guest guest]

from misha's PDF: KPC concentrated powders orally in the form of 7

tablets 2 times a day for 12 weeks.

 

that is 14 tablets per day at 5:1 concentration. however each tablet

is probably half filler and binder. but lets even ignore that. so

lets say about 750 mg per tablet times 14 = 10,500 mg of concentrate

daily or 10.5 grams. At a 5:1 concentration ratio, this equals 50

grams. However because of the binder and filler, it probably is the

equivalent of far less, like 25-30 grams. But it is extracted

scientifically one might argue, thus much more potent. However

decoction based studies are not done in patient's kitchens. They also

use some controls on the procedures with regard to time, temp, etc.

 

In contrast, see the treatment protocol from a study printed in a past

Blue poppy online journal.

 

 

One packet of these medicinals was decocted in water and administered

orally PER DAY, with 30 packets equaling one course of treatment. note

the dosages. If you do not think these are typical of chinese studies

and practice, well, you are wrong. This is the range I have seen in

every PRC study I have looked at, regardless of condition. The base rx

is about 185 grams per day, at least 4 times higher in dosage than the

hep C study that is causing all the furor. With additions, it could

easily go well above 200. If we are to believe that TCM is useful for

hep C and the formula used in the latest study was a good one (and I

believe both are true), then that study may have lent support to

another ongoing controversy; the effectiveness of low dose patents in

chronic illness. One strike against. For an effective treatment, try

this instead (note: I think the same effects can be achieved with a

lower dose, but not as low as used in the study in question --- 100-120

g per day should be good). Unfortunately it is a double edged sword to

point out this study flaw as it would lead to another damaging

revelation: most of the so-called experts in chinese herbal medicine

in america (L.Ac.) are sacrificing efficacy for profit by largely

relying on ineffective low dose patents for their patients.

 

 

All 38 patients where treated with self-composed Yu Dan Cao Huo Luo Hua

Yu Tang which consisted of: Herba Swertiae Davidi (Yu Dan Cao), 6g,

Herba Scutellariae Barbatae (Ban Zhi Lian), 20g,

Herba Oldenlandiae Diffusae Cum Radice (Bai Hua She She Cao), 20g,

Herba Taraxaci Mongolici Cum Radice (Pu Gong Ying), 15g,

Fasciculus Vascularis Citri Reticulatae (Ju Luo), 10g,

Radix Sophorae Flavescentis (Ku Shen), 15g,

Radix Rubrus Paeoniae Lactiflorae (Chi Shao), 15g,

Carapax Amydae Sinensis (Bie Jia), 15g,

Squama Manitis Pentadactylis (Chuan Shan Jia), 15g,

Fructus Cardamomi (Bai Dou Kou), 15g,

Cortex Zizyphi Jujubae (Zao Pi), 15g,

Fructus Lycii Chinensis (Gou Qi Zi), 20g,

and Radix Glycyrrhizae (Gan Cao), 6g.

 

If there was qi vacuity, 15 grams of Radix Codonopsitis Pilosulae (Dang

Shen) and 50 grams of Radix Astragali Membranacei (Huang Qi) were

added.

 

If there was spleen vacuity, 12 grams of Rhizoma Atractylodis

Macrocephalae (Bai Zhu) and 15 grams of Semen Nelumbinis Nuciferae

(Lian Mi) was added.

 

If there was liver yin vacuity, 15 grams of Fructus Ligustri Lucidi (Nu

Zhen Zi) and 20 grams of Herba Ecliptae Prostratae (Han Lian Cao) were

added.

 

If there was kidney vacuity, 20 grams of uncooked Radix Rehmanniae

(Sheng Di) and 15 grams of Cortex Eucommiae Ulmoidis (Du Zhong) were

added.

 

If there was rib-side pain, 12 grams of Radix Auklandiae Lappae (Mu

Xiang) and 15 grams of Rhizoma Corydalis Yanhusuo (Yan Hu Suo) were

added.

 

If urination was yellow, 18 grams of Herba Desmodii Styrachifolii (Jin

Qian Cao) and 15 grams of Semen Plantaginis (Che Qian Zi) were added.

 

If there was constipation, 12 grams of Radix Et Rhizoma Rhei (Da Huang)

and 15 grams of Semen Cannabis Sativae (Huo Ma Ren) were added, and,

 

if liver enzymes were abnormally elevated, 20 grams of Fructus

Germinatus Hordei Vulgaris (Mai Ya) and 15 grams of Fructus Schisandrae

Chinensis (Wu Wei Zi) were added.

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

FAX:

 

 

[Guest guest]

I haven't looked at the paper real carefully but a few comments... first of all

it's not the

formula I would have written for a generic patient. It's obviously a

professional balanced

formula but I would have liked to hear the reasons and the background of this

group of

herbs.

The huang qi is too low a dose to have an effect on such a short term. I'm not

sure of the

justification for Wu Jia Pi (not in my bag of tricks). Chai Hu as we have

discussed before

can raise AKT. The emphasis on blood moving, dan shen, chi shao, yu jin are not

going to

have an immediate effect on ALT or viral levels. Only Ban Lan Gen and Pu gong

yin could

possibly be called anti-viral. A fairer test for this particular formula would

be the rate of

progressive fibrosis over a period of years.

 

Let me fantasize a 10 herb formula for a 3 month test: Huang Qi, Wu Wei Zi, Dan

Shen, Hu

Zhang, Mu xiang, Chuan Lian Zi, Ban Lan Gen, Pu gong Yin, Tai zi Shen, Gan Cao

 

so obviously it's a disappointment that the results weren't better but I'm not

surprised. On

the bright side there were few negative effects or side effects.

doug

 

here are the herbs in the study.... and my translation:

 

Radix astragali Huang Qi (6%), Radix acanthopanax Wu Jia Pi

(8%), Radix bupleuir Chai Hu(8%), Radix et tuber curcumae Yu Jin(10%), Radix

isatis Ban Lan

Gen, Rhizoma polygonum Huang Jing, (polygonum cuspidatum is hu zhang)(10%),

Radix

glycyrrhiza gan cao(4%), (14%), Radix paeoniae rubra chi shao(14%), Radix

salviae dan

shen(14%), and Herba taraxaci pu gong yin(12%).

[Guest guest]

Are there any studies on Chinese herbs were liv biopsy has been used to verify

effects

Alon