pi wei lun/was Communist destroy CM!

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001>

wrote:

> > The pi wei lun is a little out there, so I await Bob's translated

> commentaries from later centuries to put in perspective.

>

>

>

> Do you mean all the five phase/10 stem stuff? If so, my book will not

> be shedding light on this. I pretty much discount the clinical utility

> of any of this. In my experience, none of this is necessary to

> understand or, more importantly, use the core clinical insights of Li

> Dong-yuan. How he rationalized these insights to himself and his

> contemporaries is one thing. How we use we them is something else, and

> that is the something else I address in my new edition of the Pi Wei Lun.

 

 

 

That's what I meant. So you are saying that some of the language he used was

arcane and

irrelevant in understanding the text. Do other later commentators agree with

this stance?

I notice his greatest follower, zhu dan xi, completely dispenses with this type

of

theorizing. I think Li was partly influenced by an excessive form of jin yuan

neoconfucianism that was contemporary in his era. Things like classifying all

herbs as yin

within yin, yang within yin, etc. He may have had to write this way to give his

ideas

currency even if he felt the verbiage was extraneous even at that time.

 

[Guest guest]

So you are saying that some of the language he used was arcane and

> irrelevant in understanding the text.

 

I'm saying that five phase/10 stem theory (wu yun liu qi theory) is

irrelevant to understanding how to use Li's formulas in contemporary

clinical practice. If you take away those references from the text, I

don't see much that is " arcane. " For sure, wu yun liu qi theory was

very much influenced by Song Neoconfucianism. Zhu Dan-xi's

prescriptive methodology was largely a continuation of Li's but, as

you say, without most of the wu yun liu qi terminology and references.

 

Recently, the lead article in issue #6, 2004 of the Zhe Jiang Zhong Yi

Za Zhi (Zhejiang Journal of ) was titled, " The Impact

on Latter Times of Li Dong-yuan's Spleen-stomach Theory. " This article

was written by Xu Shu-nan and appeared on pages 231-233 of that

journal. It discusses the impact of Li's theory on specific famous CM

practitioners who came after Li from the Yuan through the Qing

dynasties. Nowhere in this article is there any discussion of wu yun

liu qi theory. In other words, Xu felt quite ok with discussing Li's

impact on latter practitioners up to Ye Tian-shi in the mid 1740s

without referencing the five phases or 10 stems. Xu is a teacher or

professor at the Chinese Medical College of Hubei Medical University.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001>

wrote:

 

> I'm saying that five phase/10 stem theory (wu yun liu qi theory) is

> irrelevant to understanding how to use Li's formulas in contemporary

> clinical practice. If you take away those references from the text, I

> don't see much that is " arcane. "

 

 

I agree.