Holistic vets & TCM Herbology

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

 

> No offense to those whom I have never met, but I have given up on

> so-called " holistic " vets when it comes to TCM herbology. I have

> never worked with one who really knew enough about TCM to be

> effective and were often dangerous. The ones I have worked with

> are not sophisticated about hot, cold, excess and vacuity, nor

> sensitive to cats high tendency to have adverse reactions to

> strong meds (or herbs).

 

I could accept your comment if I were the one to whom it was directed. I

have been studying TCM herbology for only 6 years, or so. I find it a very

difficult study, and I know very well that I have mountains to learn about it

yet.

 

However, with respect, I suggest that your experience with holistic vets does

not reflect the wealth of expertise amongst my colleagues in that area.

 

The vets with whom you have worked may have been in the early stages of their

TCM / Herbal training. One cannot expect such vets to have the depth of

knowledge of vets with 10-30+ years of experience in the area.

 

with respect, I also disagree with your comment that:

> Many vets who practice TCM seem to have gotten on the " four paws,

> five elements " bandwagon " .

 

I am not sure what you mean by " bandwagon " in that statement.

 

> I think the vet who wrote this book goes way over the top on

> tonics (like many in the human field as well) and the only reason

> that little harm is done is because she uses such low doses.

 

Dr. Cheryl Schwartz DVM, http://www.viim.org/institute/doctors/schwartz.asp is

the author of " FOUR PAWS FIVE DIRECTIONS: A GUIDE TO CHINESE

MEDICINE FOR CATS AND DOGS " . Cheryl is a very highly respected and

experienced acupuncturist and herbalist. She is also on the teaching panel of

IVAS and has lectured internationally.

 

Acquisition of knowledge, and its intelligent incorporation into the healing

arts

and sciences, are the work of a llifetime. NONE of us has a monopoly on

knowledge, whether it be of TCM, acupuncture, or medicine in general. We are

all, hopefully, doing our best.

 

There are several vets on the CHA List. For peace on the List, could we desist

from derogatory comments between the professions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

 

Chinese Proverb: " Man who says it can't be done, should not interrupt man doing

it "

[Guest guest]

, " " <@e...>

wrote:

 

>

> There are several vets on the CHA List. For peace on the List, could we desist

> from derogatory comments between the professions?

>

 

 

I prefaced my comments as my experience in the local area, not a reflection of

other vets

who are properly trained. As for Cheryl Schwartz, whom I have neverr met, she

wrote a

book that has been influential, thus she put herself on the firing line.

Nothing I said was

derogatory towards her or any named individual. I stated the truth. She

emphasizes

tonics in chronic illness and she uses low doses. I have every right to dispute

whether this

is a valid approach to feline TCM herbology from the my area of expertise,

whichis

herbology. Many of the issues I have raised in this forum on the topic have not

ever been

addressed in print by any published TCM vet who writes influential books. I am

surprised

that you would place someone's work above reasonable criticism because of their

respect

in the field. My point is that there are very few vets out there who have

extensive formal

training in TCM herbology and there is no history of treating small carnivores

in china, so

its all pretty much a crap shoot at this point. Because of inadequate training

and lack of

experience, I think we should all be skeptical and cautious about this use of

chinese herbs.

 

L.Ac. students do a year of focused internship using chinese herbs every week

and most

graduate feeling inadequate in this area. Where does a vet get even this

inadequate

levelof training. I know a few vets who went to acupuncture school, but

practicing

effective TCM herbology without a supervised internship is pretty much

impossible. Since

there is no history of treating cats in TCM, who was the experienced master

chinese vet

who trained these folks? No one, that's who. I am all for treating my pets

holistically with

TCM, but we are still very far from the day when we can actually make any claims

of what

works or not. It has taken me over a decade of studying chinese herbs as my

primary

interest to achieve an expansive enough view of the topic to consider how to

apply it in

truly novel situtations. I certainly didn't make any comments about vets that I

haven't

made about L.Ac. Many L.Ac. don't study enough to truly tackle the topic and

many use

doses too low to get the desired effect. According to my teachers, it is the

view in TCM

when it comes to animals they did treat, like oxen, that doses even

proportionately higher

than used for humans are necessary.

 

[Guest guest]

IVAS, the International Veterinary Acupuncture Society, did/does run a

course in Chinese herbology for vets, and they did/do have a young

CM-trained vet from China on their faculty. Because they were/are

head-quartered in Longmont, Colorado (I haven't had any contact in

several years), I was aksed a couple of times to teach for them. I

demurred, saying that I only treated humans and knew nothing about

veterinary CM. I was still asked to come to teach, being assured that

" it was all pretty much the same " except that you couldn't ask the

patient questions. I only gave them two couple-hour lectures, one on

autoimmune diseases and the other on geriatrics. The students were

upset because I questioned the wisdom of their syllabus. They were

only being exposed to formulas, not individual medicinals. I said

that, in order to really understand these formulas, one had to

understand the materia medica within them. A number of students didn't

like that idea; way too much time and effort. At least one other

Colorado Lic.Ac. was teaching them formulas, apparently without qualm,

the way they wanted them taught. For me, it was a very unsatisfactory

experience which I terminated ASAP.

 

That being said, one of the IVAS students who heard me speak later

enrolled in our several hundred hour herbology training and did learn

materia medica and formulas and strategies the way they are taught at

most Chinese schools. This doc would come to class and regale us with

tales of his attempts to treat thoroughbred race horses in Kentucky

with Chinese herbs. Although I didn't always agree with some of his

thinking, he was seeming to get some pretty good results on some very

expensive patients. This vet was very smart and spent a lot of time

studying the materials. He eventually learned CM herbology better than

some of the Lic.Ac.'s in the class.

 

All just anecdotal.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001>

wrote:

This vet was very smart and spent a lot of time

> studying the materials. He eventually learned CM herbology better than

> some of the Lic.Ac.'s in the class.

 

that's my point and my only point. I would imagine the average vet actually has

more

aptitude for TCM studies than the average L.Ac. student. However the average

vet also

does not have the time to study TCM properly, which is completely

understandable, given

their demands. I have to admit I am saddened by the fact that what I think is a

perfectly

reasonable criticism is being perceived as personal or professional attack. I

will continue

to critique whatever I consider to be inadequacies in TCM education or

theorizing,

regardless of who is doing it. I think it ironic that I have been accused of

causing rancor

between the professions when my criticisms of my own porfession have been far

more

harsh than my words on veterinary medicine.