Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Todd - In my estimation, any pathogen can be retained, compensated for and hence become 'hidden.' The most common site is the shao yang in SHL and the qi stage in Wen Bing. That said, the pathogen may lurk at any level, and proper differential diagnosis is expected from professional herbalists. My experience concurs with Yang Tiande on this. He is currently practicing in the LA basin and gives back to the profession by supervising at Emperor's College clinic. You have heard him cited on this list before by the Emperor's conclave participating on this list. He is considered at a very high level by our Chinese practitioners. His family is famous. His father participated in the development of Beijing TCM University and the CAM text which was " Essentials " at the time. Dr Yang's father also supervised the first generation of PhDs out of Beijing; his students include Xiuling Ma and Lu Biao, both are in the LA area. Will > Will > > Thanks for all the notes. We need as much input on this subject as > possible. However I > am unclear what you mean about " qi stage is the most common area [for > pathogens to > lurk] in the wen bing schema " . What pathogen do you refer to? Wind-warmth, > spring- > warmth, summerheat, some other? My reading of Liu suggets that > spring-warmth can lurk > in either qi,ying or xue. It is determined by the s/s at a flareup. Unless > s/s confirm qi > level, it should not be treated as such. I am sure you agree. This is my > point about theory > and etiology. They do not confirm a case. Only present s/s and past hx do. > I have no > idea who Dr. Yang is, but a lot of variables are at play in warm disease. > Where did he > practice? In what era? Who were his patients? What were their diseases. > Etc. Is he > referring to his experience in Socal? Certainly MS patients often present > as liver yin xu > with wind, a blood or ying level pattern. > > William R. Morris, L.Ac., O.M.D., MSEd Dean of Educational Advancement Emperor's College of Oriental Medicine 310-453-8300 phone 310-829-3838 fax will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 > >WMorris116 [WMorris116] >Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:41 PM > > Lupus SHL - lurking pathogens > >Todd - > >In my estimation, any pathogen can be retained, compensated for and hence >become 'hidden.' The most common site is the shao yang in SHL and the qi >stage in >Wen Bing [Jason] Guo Hui Liu would disagree with this as I would guess that most wenbing experts also. Meaning I think it is believed that lurking pathogens most of time 'lurk' on a deeper layer i.e. ying or blood level , kidney yin, or even to mo yuan. BUT, I would like to here what you mean that the pathogen most commonly lurks at the qi level. How does one see this in the clinic... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 , " " <@c...> wrote: I think it is believed that lurking pathogens most of > time 'lurk' on a deeper layer i.e. ying or blood level , kidney yin, or even > to mo yuan. That was my impression, but I am no expert in this area. However I know this has been a special study of yours and that you have read many cases only available in Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 even to mo yuan. >>>Which has been related to shao yang Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 > >WMorris116 [WMorris116] >Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:28 PM > > Lupus SHL - lurking pathogens > >Bingo!!! > >Will > > >> even >> to mo yuan. >> >>>Which has been related to shao yang >> Alon >\ [Jason] There may be a relationship, and with almost everything in CM, but many believe these are two separate locations.. What does that really mean?? Well what it means is that there are 2 types of presentations that will manifest and hence 2 different treatments... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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