what character(s) is dusky?

[Guest guest]

, Steven Slater

<laozhongyi@m...> wrote:

 

> A a slightly dark tongue with thin (white) coating are the textbook

> tongue signs of Liver depression qi stagnation.

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

(619) 668-6964

 

 

[Guest guest]

On 09/10/2004, at 2:04 AM, wrote:

 

>

>

> , Steven Slater

> <laozhongyi@m...> wrote:

>

>> A a slightly dark tongue with thin (white) coating are the textbook

>> tongue signs of Liver depression qi stagnation.

>

>

> Chinese Herbs

Hi

 

The textbook definition I gave was from " A Handbook of TCM Patterns and

their Treatments " by Flaws and Finney. Upon further investigation, I

have only come out rather confused as to what exactly " slightly dark "

means. I assumed, and still do, that is refers to a tongue approaching

blue/purple in colour. I know Bob has gone for a few days so we can't

get more info about his exact meaning at the moment but I would be very

interested in description of this tongue quality and what it is in

chinese. I also note that many texts say the tongue is normal in

uncomplicated liver qi depression, but I find Bob's pattern more

helpful in clinic.

 

I don't know what dusky is in Chinese, that is why I queried what

Shanna meant by this term. As I initially said in the " excessive iron

in the blood thread " in response, I have never heard of this term in

Chinese medicine theory. I went on to say that I assume it means some

kind of dark quality (after consulting an English dictionary). In an

earlier post by Shanna in that thread she said the same patient had a

pale purple tongue; so perhaps " dusky " is her alternate term for

this...........I am not sure.

 

Here is what I gathered from a few texts close at hand regarding purple

and dark in tongue diagnosis :-

 

Fundamentals of by Wiseman and Ellis

normal = pale red

red tongue = deeper colour than normal

crimson tongue = considerably deeper in colour than normal

green-blue or purple = red tongue with a green-blue or deep blue hue.

 

Introduction to English Terminology of by Wiseman and

Ye

Red tongue (she2 hong2) = a tongue redder than normal = heat (vacuity

or repletion)

Crimson tongue (she2 jiang4) = a deep red or maroon tongue = heat in

construction/blood

Purple tongue (she2 zi3) = a purple coloration of the tongue = imparied

flow of qi and blood (heat or cold patterns)

* No reference to green-blue or blue.

 

Practical Diagnosis in TCM by Tietao Deng

Pale purple with no trace of red = green-blue tongue = yin cold and

blood stasis

Deep-crimson and dark = purple tongue = heat with stagnation/stasis

These are the only mentions of pale purple or dark that I could see in

this text.

 

Advanced Textbook on TCM and Pharmacology (New World Press)

Purple tongue (zi3 she2) = dark red with a purple colour = extreme heat

and blood stasis

If pale purple in colour with green-blue hue (like the colour of blood

vessels in the skin) = yin cold and stagnation of blood.

 

On the Standard Nomenclature of TCM by Prof. Xie Zhufan

Quote: " A tongue purple in colour indicates stagnation of circulating

qi and blood, and a tongue blue in color indicates the presence of

congealing cold with blood stasis. They are designated zi3 she2 and

blue tongue qing1 she2, respectively. The corresponding english

equivalents are " purple tongue " and " blue tongue " ................In

daily English, such statements as " go purple with rage " and " hands blue

with cold " are quite similar with the Chinese concepts. "

 

" A tongue bluish purple in color is called qing1 zi3 she2. SInce the

word " cyanosis " used in Western Medicine is translated into Chinese as

qing1 zi3, it is generally acceptable to use cyanosis as the equivalent

of qing1 zi3, and hence the term 'cyonotic' tongue " . end Quote.

 

another:

Quote: " If the tongue is deep red, indicating the presence of intense

heat, it is called jiang4 she2 in Chinese. As the equivalent, " crimson

tongue " , " scarlet tongue " , " dark red tongue " and " deep red tongue " are

used " . end Quote.

 

This conclusions the author of this text makes, IMO show over eagerness

to adopt WM terms; but I find the text VERY useful when trying to trace

different English translations used in TCM back to the Chinese.

 

From all this I get the impression that:-

qing1 = green-blue = pale purple with no red = yin cold with blood

stasis

zi3 = purple tongue = deep-crimson and dark = heat with stasis

 

I don't know where this leaves " dusky " , for I can find no reference for

it in terms of TCM. I get the impression many are actually talking

about qing1/green-blue when they discuss the term " dusky " and yet

others mention " dark " . The term " dark " appears as a qualifier for both

red tongues and purple tongues...............

 

I guess all this once again points towards the necessity for being able

to link the terms we use back to the original Chinese.

 

All this leaves me wondering:-

Are deep/deeper and dark/darker exact synonyms?

And what is a " dark " tongue exactly when used by its own in a

description?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Steve