scripps natural supplements conference

[Guest guest]

Here is a PDF of a conference I am speaking at in SD in january. looks

kind of interesting.

 

http://www.scripps.org/pdf/Natural_Supplements_05_conf_update.pdf

 

My colleague, Pamela Richter, L.Ac., MSTOM, Pharm.D. will present a

model for predicting possible drug/herb interactions. I will be

presenting a model for positive drug/herb interaction with examples

from the modern chinese research literature. One of my main goals will

be to clarify the nature of chinese root/branch treatment. Root

treatment in this case refers to working on fundamental mechanisms of

restoring physiological homeostasis (i.e. primarily the functions of

the yin organs). Dangerous symptoms and diseases will be explained as

the tips or consequences of long term failure of this homeostasis. It

will be shown that in many chinese studies, the simultaneous use of

mild herbs to gently restore physiological homeostasis can be used in

concert with drugs to relieve certain symptoms and alter disease

courses, yet at the same time allow reduced dosage and thus minimize

side effects. I will also draw on the gist of Roger Wicke's n-space

hypothesis in order to explain why assessment of general symptom-sign

complexes is an effective methodology for differentiating patterns of

failed homeostasis.

 

While there is a horrendous number of drug deaths each year, many

people use drugs longterm without ill effects. It is often a matter of

dosage. If dosage can be reduced to the least amount that yields

efficacy, then side effects will be negligible (conversely this

requires that the dosage of herbs be increased to the least amount that

yields efficacy, which necessitates decoction strength). In the ideal

scenario, the root can eventually be corrected and the inferior

medicinal discontinued. However control of the branch is not a

necessary evil. Controlling the branch with inferior herbs or even

drugs may actually benefit the patient when properly combined with root

treatment. see my article at:

http://.org/articles/branchtx.shtml

 

The conference prefers that the following standards be used for

evidence of this type of drug/herb therapy.

 

aafp.org/x17444.xml

 

I would appreciate any such evidence anyone has access to. I am

receiving no compensation for this event (of course). Most chinese

studies I have seen would be level 3 (inconclusive) studies or level 4

(anecdotal) according to the following chart:

 

http://www.usp.org/dietarySupplements/sawpalmetto.html#criteria

 

While not considered conclusive, such studies are noted to be useful

for hypothesis generating. This is where MSU can diverge into science.

In other words, therapies people methodically develop on their own or

believe they have discovered in their practices can be tested. In

regards to the chinese literature, there is often a large body of such

level 3 and 4 evidence. It is the sheer volume of this otherwise

inconclusive evidence that demands further investigation. By their own

published criteria at the American College of Physicians, there does

appear to be quite a case to be made for very extensive investigation

into the use of chinese herbs.

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>

>

....> courses, yet at the same time allow reduced dosage and thus minimize

> side effects. I will also draw on the gist of Roger Wicke's n-space

> hypothesis in order to explain why assessment of general symptom-sign

> complexes is an effective methodology for differentiating patterns of

> failed homeostasis.

> http://www.usp.org/dietarySupplements/sawpalmetto.html#criteria

> ...

> While not considered conclusive, such studies are noted to be useful

> for hypothesis generating. This is where MSU can diverge into science.

> In other words, therapies people methodically develop on their own or

> believe they have discovered in their practices can be tested. In

> regards to the chinese literature, there is often a large body of such

> level 3 and 4 evidence. It is the sheer volume of this otherwise

> inconclusive evidence that demands further investigation. By their own

> published criteria at the American College of Physicians, there does

> appear to be quite a case to be made for very extensive investigation

> into the use of chinese herbs.

[Jason]

 

 

Since you have looked into this probably more than most of us, do you know

what duration and appropriate size is needed to become Level I or II - How

is this evaluated...?

 

Also what is the n-space hypothesis and how does this differ from normal TCM

assessments...\

 

Thanx,

 

 

-

[Guest guest]

See

http://www.rmhiherbal.org/review/2004-3.html

Herb-herb and herb-drug interactions: modes of interaction and

mathematical descriptions

 

It does not differ much from TCM assessment methods - it simply quantifies them

and facilitates statistics on them.

 

Roger

 

 

> " "

>RE: scripps natural supplements conference

>

....

>Also what is the n-space hypothesis and how does this differ from normal TCM

>assessments...\

>

>Thanx,

>

>

>-

>

 

---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist

contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/

Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA

Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org

[Guest guest]

R,

 

Can you give an example case study with stats...Thanx,

\

-Jason

 

>

> rw2 [rw2]

> Monday, November 08, 2004 5:49 PM

>

> RE: scripps natural supplements conference

>

>

> See

> http://www.rmhiherbal.org/review/2004-3.html

> Herb-herb and herb-drug interactions: modes of interaction and

> mathematical descriptions

>

> It does not differ much from TCM assessment methods - it simply quantifies

> them and facilitates statistics on them.

>

> Roger

>

>

> > " "

> >RE: scripps natural supplements conference

> >

> ...

> >Also what is the n-space hypothesis and how does this differ from normal

> TCM

> >assessments...\

> >

> >Thanx,

> >

> >

> >-

> >

>

> ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist

> contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/

> Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA

> Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org

>

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

> board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

> free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " " <@c...>

wrote:

> R,

>

> Can you give an example case study with stats...Thanx,

> \

> -Jason

 

Jason

 

it is not a method of assessment. it is a mathematical model explaining why

TCM naked

sense assessment is valid. It does not change TCM or offer an alternative in

practice, it

merely explains why it makes logical sense (albeit, only to those who are

impressed by

math). In order to make the case for pattern differentiation as playing any

role in an

integrated medicine, it needs to be proven that this is not just a bunch of

hooey. In the

absence of interrater reliability studies and lab test correlations, the only

basis we have for

jusitfying the need for bian zheng is our belief (at least that's how they see

it). A model

that shows how bian zheng analysis by naked sense observation is valid is a

necessary

step in any integration that will embrace TCM. Without showing even tenuously

that this is

a valid idea, the meds will just take our techniques and toss us to the curb.

 

[Guest guest]

Give me some time, I plan to write an article explaining how this method could

provide much more useful clinical research, laying it out in spades and giving

examples of exactly how a research protocol should be designed and how to crunch

the numbers. The status quo in Chinese TCM clinical research is seriously

lacking in usefulness, as most of it attempts to mimic the western biomedical

model, reporting on the effectiveness of formula X on western disease Y, with no

mention of TCM pattern differentiations.

 

What is needed is clinical research that proves, with statistics and double

blind studies, that doing TCM pattern assessments of each client with a specific

western disease Y, and then matching corresponding formulas to these assessments

is superior to simply giving a formula that is reputed to be " good for disease

Y " .

 

This issue keeps coming up on this forum, and is a central principle of TCM

herbology. I find it astounding that no one has been able to find a single study

that attempts to prove or disprove this principle in the context of specific

diseases. (I keep bringing it up every few years in the hopes that someone with

influence will finally get it.) Most of us who have practiced many years believe

it to be true from the many experiences and anecdotes we have: trying a formula

reputed to be good for disease Y, recognizing that it doesn't work or may even

have side effects because it is mismatched to the client's patterns, then

finally getting results when correctly matching the pattern assessment to a

formula.

 

---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist

contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/

Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA

Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org

 

 

 

 

 

> " " <

>Re: RE: scripps natural supplements conference

>

>

> , " " <@c...>

wrote:

>> R,

>>

>> Can you give an example case study with stats...Thanx,

>> \

>> -Jason

>

>Jason

>

>it is not a method of assessment. it is a mathematical model explaining why

TCM naked

>sense assessment is valid. It does not change TCM or offer an alternative in

practice, it

>merely explains why it makes logical sense (albeit, only to those who are

impressed by

>math). In order to make the case for pattern differentiation as playing any

role in an

>integrated medicine, it needs to be proven that this is not just a bunch of

hooey. In the

>absence of interrater reliability studies and lab test correlations, the only

basis we have for

>jusitfying the need for bian zheng is our belief (at least that's how they see

it). A model

>that shows how bian zheng analysis by naked sense observation is valid is a

necessary

>step in any integration that will embrace TCM. Without showing even tenuously

that this is

>a valid idea, the meds will just take our techniques and toss us to the curb.

>

>Todd

>

 

---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist

contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/

Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA

Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org