pattern diagnosis/false cold-heat...cases

[Guest guest]

And while I'm on the subject, I have another patient that fits this

description of false cold--its actually the one that I've talked about

who has the navel pain (and wondered about worms with). One thing I

didn't mention is that whenever he takes antibiotics he gets this

terrible red rash all over his chest---yet he continues to take them

when he gets sick (sure hope that stops). He thinks that its possible

that his navel pain started about the time he first had the reaction

to antibiotics. (Man those little pills can be dangerous). Anyway,

similar to my other patient, he can be very cold on his chest and he

also has both dampheat and yin deficiency symptoms as well (but the

dampheat is nowhere near as dramatic).

 

Clearly the universe wants me to learn about this syndroms right now, eh?

 

He has a very deep crack in the stomach area of his tongue...certainly

fits the picture with the navel pain. So far I've been treating his

divorce-induced depression with a Dan Zhi Xiao Yao Wan-type formula,

but I'd really like to get to this stomach issue.

 

Laura

 

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> I too was under the impression that " false cold/heat " was synonymous

> with " vacuity cold/heat " .

> >>>They are not, for example false heat is commonly due to severe

yang deficiency (uprooting of yang qi)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Laura,

 

I don't think either of your patients fits the " false " cold or heat

patterns of TCM. The cases involve complex's of heat/cold and

deficiency/excess certainly, but this is not the same as " False "

syndromes at all.

 

These false syndromes usually occur in relatively serious disease and

are produced when extreme cold or heat reach its zenith and transform

into the other to some degree. These are also different from symptoms

of floating yang in yang deficiency ( " false heat " is actually caused by

exuberant yin cold repelling yang not yang deficiecny) or hot

upper/cold lower etc.

 

Perhaps one thing worth considering in these cases is the fact that

dampness itself is made of body fluids/yin and when it forms it can

consume yin. Heat also does this, so in patterns showing damp-heat can

result in yin deficiency and resolving the damp-heat can therefore also

resolve at least part of the cause of the yin deficiency.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Steve

 

 

On 27/11/2004, at 10:11 PM, heylaurag wrote:

 

>

>

> And while I'm on the subject, I have another patient that fits this

> description of false cold--its actually the one that I've talked about

> who has the navel pain (and wondered about worms with). One thing I

> didn't mention is that whenever he takes antibiotics he gets this

> terrible red rash all over his chest---yet he continues to take them

> when he gets sick (sure hope that stops). He thinks that its possible

> that his navel pain started about the time he first had the reaction

> to antibiotics. (Man those little pills can be dangerous). Anyway,

> similar to my other patient, he can be very cold on his chest and he

> also has both dampheat and yin deficiency symptoms as well (but the

> dampheat is nowhere near as dramatic).

>

> Clearly the universe wants me to learn about this syndroms right now,

> eh?

>

> He has a very deep crack in the stomach area of his tongue...certainly

> fits the picture with the navel pain. So far I've been treating his

> divorce-induced depression with a Dan Zhi Xiao Yao Wan-type formula,

> but I'd really like to get to this stomach issue.

>

> Laura

>

>

> , " Alon Marcus "

> <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

>> I too was under the impression that " false cold/heat " was synonymous

>> with " vacuity cold/heat " .

>>>>> They are not, for example false heat is commonly due to severe

> yang deficiency (uprooting of yang qi)

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Yes, but is this actually termed " false heat " ? I know the patterns you

are referring to but have not found them to be termed as " false heat "

in standard texts.

 

Best WIshes,

 

Steve

 

On 28/11/2004, at 7:27 PM, Alon Marcus wrote:

 

>

> ( " false heat " is actually caused by

> exuberant yin cold repelling yang not yang deficiency)

>>>>> One often sees false heat at end-stage diseases (or sever yang

>>>>> deficiency) from unrooted yang in true yang deficient patients

>>>>> (this is also a false heat presentation for which ru gui, etc., is

>>>>> used often

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Steven Slater

<laozhongyi@m...> wrote:

> Yes, but is this actually termed " false heat " ? I know the patterns you

> are referring to but have not found them to be termed as " false heat "

> in standard texts.

>

> Best WIshes,

>

> Steve

 

If Wiseman's PD is to believed to be derived from standard texts, then

yes, just look up the entry of " true cold and false heat. " This

clearly states that the false heat signs are attributable to vacuous

yang floating upwards.

 

Brian C. Allen

[Guest guest]

Hi Brian,

 

I addressed this very thing in another post. Vacuous yang floating

upwards has 2 specific definitions that do not equate to yang vacuity.

 

Wiseman's PD definitions for " vacuous yang floating upward " :-

1. Exuberant yin repelling yang.

2. A pattern of tidal heat [effusion], tender-red complexion, dry mouth

without thirst, and a vacuous rapid pusle arising when yang, deprived

of support through essence-blood depletion, strays upward to the upper

body.

 

The pathogenesis is exuberant yin repelling yang or depleted

essence-blood causing yang to stray upward.......no mention of yang

vacuity apart from in the term itself.

 

This all leads back to " true cold false heat " being due to exuberant

yin repelling yang.

 

PD on " Exuberant yin repelling yang " - disease pattern in which

exuberant internal cold forces yang qi to the outer body, causing signs

of true internal cold and false external heat.

 

While I am freely willing to concede that yang vacuity may cause false

heat; I am just hesitant to assume or interpret " vacuous yang floating

upward " = yang vacuity when no such explanation exists that I have

seen. I assume if " False heat " was actually due to yang vacuity cold it

would simply say so somewhere; but it never does.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Steve

 

On 28/11/2004, at 6:21 AM, bcataiji wrote:

 

>

>

> , Steven Slater

> <laozhongyi@m...> wrote:

>> Yes, but is this actually termed " false heat " ? I know the patterns you

>> are referring to but have not found them to be termed as " false heat "

>> in standard texts.

>>

>> Best WIshes,

>>

>> Steve

>

> If Wiseman's PD is to believed to be derived from standard texts, then

> yes, just look up the entry of " true cold and false heat. " This

> clearly states that the false heat signs are attributable to vacuous

> yang floating upwards.

>

> Brian C. Allen

>

[Guest guest]

( " false heat " is actually caused by

exuberant yin cold repelling yang not yang deficiency)

>>>>One often sees false heat at end-stage diseases (or sever yang deficiency)

from unrooted yang in true yang deficient patients (this is also a false heat

presentation for which ru gui, etc., is used often

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, but is this actually termed " false heat " ? I know the patterns you

are referring to but have not found them to be termed as " false heat "

in standard texts

>>>That is what i have learned them as