TCMherbal educ.&certif. alternatives (#1)

[Guest guest]

Bob, and others ---

 

See below for information I've compiled re: alternatives to licensing, that I

promised to post re:

 

 

>Message: 17

>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 21:31:16 -0000

> " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001

>Re: doctoral folly continues

>

>Roger,

>

>Excellent. So how would you advise those of us that favor of this

>approach to support it and get involved? I'm all ears.

>

>Bob

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Roger,

 

Thank you. I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put

into this response. I also appreciate your providing me and others

concrete ways in which to channel our qi.

 

Just to let you know it was not wasted, Blue Poppy has become an

organizational member of the National Health Freedom org and I

personally will become active with this group. I sincerely urge others

in our profession to do the same.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

, rw2@r... wrote:

> Bob, and others ---

>

> See below for information I've compiled re: alternatives to licensing, that I

promised to

post re:

 

I would also strongly encourage people to explore the libertarian party. Not to

join, but to

apply their principles to take over the republican party. For a true

progressive, green,

anti-corporate libertarianism, check out http://www.harrybrowne.org

 

Most of what has been presented to the public as libertarianism is actually

robber baron

era republicanism which was reactionary, elitest, protectionist, status quo,

oppressive and

abusive to workers and destructive to the environment. No wonder so few

progressives

will give this philosophy the time of day. However it does hold the key to

liberation of the

people. For all of you to consider again: how can someone who advocates

medical

licensing of any kind as mandatory call themselves a libertarian? Nothing could

be further

from the truth. It is protectionism pure and simple. And as most students of

history

know, protectionism is one of the hallmarks of the democratic party for all its

history.

Libertarians don't pander to special interests, among them the lobbyists of

professional

medical organizations. Just call yourselves robber barons and get it over with

already.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Very good points. The health freedom acts, such as the one we passed here

in MN, only work for unlicensed practitioners (unless you seek to put us

into this catagory). Providers that have licensure must still obey the

rules and regulations under which they are licensed or expect regulatory

measures. This is a clear case of where the laypeople have more

opportunities and rights than licensed practitioners.

 

In reading this I was wondering how this was going to affect us. As stated

above this issue is important for the public, who need to start to demand

their rights, but does not address true alternatives to licensure nor the

educational issues. We are licensed/certified in most all states. In fact,

the practice of acupuncture (not herbs) without a proper license is a crime.

 

While it is important to improve our educational system and standards, the

tone of this seems to be aimed at putting us back to a time when there was

no licensure. Our profession has pushed for licensure as well as

accredidation in order to have greater acceptance. We have all benefitted

from this as we are no longer practicing in basements with unsterilized

needles, we have educational loans and in some states insurance

reimbursement options. This rollback of time, would definitely divide our

profession and cause a lot more issues and public scrutiny. This could

drmatically decrease the number of graduates, limit the educational loan

ops, as well as limit practice ops. This could be disasterous for most but

good for those who want to limit professional competition. This opens up the

profession to take over and could have the effect of all practitioners (L

Ac) from being able to practice.

 

In summation, apprenticeships are still on option for certification under

NCCAOM and also for CA licensure. Some states may require a formal

education route as the regulation of medicine is up to the individual

states. And finally, the one issue in all of this that has not been

adequately addressed is how to make a higher caliber practitioner. If our

original destination is to have more knowledgeable and critical thinking

providers than we need to change from book learning to more hands-on and

critical thinking. Later

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

>rw2

>

>

> TCMherbal educ. & certif. alternatives (#1)

>Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:47:39 -0700

>

>Bob, and others ---

>

>See below for information I've compiled re: alternatives to licensing, that

>I promised to post re:

>

>

> >Message: 17

> >Thu, 09 Dec 2004 21:31:16 -0000

> > " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001

> >Re: doctoral folly continues

> >

> >Roger,

> >

> >Excellent. So how would you advise those of us that favor of this

> >approach to support it and get involved? I'm all ears.

> >

> >Bob

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

 

 

Excellent points. Since the election, Honora and I have been thinking

about how to get more involved in politics. In January we're signed up

to take a course in how to influence politics at a grassroot level

taught by a lawyer who is distraught over the last election. I've

always been an independent, although I have also long known that that

position denies me any real political leverage. After all, if you

don't have a say in the caucus process, you are stuck with candidates

foisted on you by others. Last night I mentioned to Honora that I was

thinking of joining the Republican party as a way to infiltrate it and

have some say in its deliberations. After all, that's where the levers

of power are right now. If you had told me I would consider such a

thing even two months ago, I would've said you're crazy, but now it

actuaslly looks like the crafty, Yi Jing thing to do.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001>

wrote:

>

Last night I mentioned to Honora that I was

> thinking of joining the Republican party as a way to infiltrate it and

> have some say in its deliberations. After all, that's where the levers

> of power are right now. If you had told me I would consider such a

> thing even two months ago, I would've said you're crazy, but now it

> actuaslly looks like the crafty, Yi Jing thing to do.

 

I'm feeling the same way. the democrats are lost to libertarians and this is

one reason

they are out of power. despite the flawed exit polls reporting morality as the

key factor in

swinging the election, it was actually a broad sentiment for small government

and lower

taxes in this country. the only hope is to wrest control of the republican

party from the

decidedly anti-libertarian christian right. Libertarian democrats, its time to

take a stand. I

will register republican for the next primaries. I think we are primed for a

libertarian

revolution, but it will only happen if we abandon the democrats. And don't

worry, most of

the moderate libertarian republicans are pro-choice and environmentalist (just

like most

of the US). Think clearly about who your political peers really are and don't

be blinded to

alternate strategies by our bleeding hearts. Liberalism did not adequately

improve

healthcare access or economic status. Conservatism is so reactionary, it does

not even

dignify a discussion. Libertarianism is the middle road of rationale and

pragmatism and

ITS NEVER BEEN TRIED since the days of small town economies where it seemed to

work

pretty darn well.

 

[Guest guest]

, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001>

wrote:

After all, if you

> don't have a say in the caucus process, you are stuck with candidates

> foisted on you by others.

 

those who agree with this might want to see my recent blog entry at

 

http://www..org/2004/11/radical-suggestion.html

 

[Guest guest]

In January we're signed up

to take a course in how to influence politics at a grassroot level

taught by a lawyer who is distraught over the last election.

>>Bob power to you i hope more of us will as well

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I've been a REpublican ever since they controlled the house, senate and

governorship of the state. Pragmatism is important, especially given that I am

basically libertarian in bent and the two parties are equally off base.

Basically, one says that you need a mommy, who will tell you what to do for

your own good, no matter what your reasoning, while the other is like a daddy

who says do what you want, but if he doesn't like something you do, he'll kick

your butt.

Since the advent of computers and its concommitant increased difficulty to

hide or remain discretely invisible and the increased mommyness of our

government via regulatory agencies with bureaucrats who wish to retain and

enhance

their job and position at all costs (includng our jobs), it has been easier

morally for me to work Republican. Interestingly enough, I have found a number

of

similar souls in those circles.

Of course, all this is my personal opinion, garnered thru years of working to

get bills passed and to have what I do included or to shall I say to have

what I do not removed, which is just as important.

David Molony

In a message dated 12/16/04 12:24:26 PM, pemachophel2001 writes:

 

 

>

>

>

>

> Excellent points. Since the election, Honora and I have been thinking

> about how to get more involved in politics. In January we're signed up

> to take a course in how to influence politics at a grassroot level

> taught by a lawyer who is distraught over the last election. I've

> always been an independent, although I have also long known that that

> position denies me any real political leverage. After all, if you

> don't have a say in the caucus process, you are stuck with candidates

> foisted on you by others. Last night I mentioned to Honora that I was

> thinking of joining the Republican party as a way to infiltrate it and

> have some say in its deliberations. After all, that's where the levers

> of power are right now. If you had told me I would consider such a

> thing even two months ago, I would've said you're crazy, but now it

> actuaslly looks like the crafty, Yi Jing thing to do.

>

> Bob

>

 

 

 

 

 

David Molony

101 Bridge Street

Catasauqua, PA 18032

Phone (610)264-2755

Fax (610) 264-7292

 

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[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear that. Later

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

>acuman1

>

>

>Re: Re: TCMherbal educ. & certif. alternatives (#1)

>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:33:08 EST

>

>I've been a REpublican ever since they controlled the house, senate and

>governorship of the state. Pragmatism is important, especially given that I

>am

>basically libertarian in bent and the two parties are equally off base.

>Basically, one says that you need a mommy, who will tell you what to do for

>your own good, no matter what your reasoning, while the other is like a

>daddy

>who says do what you want, but if he doesn't like something you do, he'll

>kick

>your butt.

>Since the advent of computers and its concommitant increased difficulty to

>hide or remain discretely invisible and the increased mommyness of our

>government via regulatory agencies with bureaucrats who wish to retain and

>enhance

>their job and position at all costs (includng our jobs), it has been easier

>morally for me to work Republican. Interestingly enough, I have found a

>number of

>similar souls in those circles.

>Of course, all this is my personal opinion, garnered thru years of working

>to

>get bills passed and to have what I do included or to shall I say to have

>what I do not removed, which is just as important.

>David Molony

>In a message dated 12/16/04 12:24:26 PM, pemachophel2001 writes:

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Excellent points. Since the election, Honora and I have been thinking

> > about how to get more involved in politics. In January we're signed up

> > to take a course in how to influence politics at a grassroot level

> > taught by a lawyer who is distraught over the last election. I've

> > always been an independent, although I have also long known that that

> > position denies me any real political leverage. After all, if you

> > don't have a say in the caucus process, you are stuck with candidates

> > foisted on you by others. Last night I mentioned to Honora that I was

> > thinking of joining the Republican party as a way to infiltrate it and

> > have some say in its deliberations. After all, that's where the levers

> > of power are right now. If you had told me I would consider such a

> > thing even two months ago, I would've said you're crazy, but now it

> > actuaslly looks like the crafty, Yi Jing thing to do.

> >

> > Bob

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>David Molony

>101 Bridge Street

>Catasauqua, PA 18032

>Phone (610)264-2755

>Fax (610) 264-7292

>

>**********Confidentiality Notice    **********

>This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other

>writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended

>recipient(s) identified above.  This message may contain information

>that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure

>under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe

>Harbor Principles.  If you are the intended recipient, you are

>responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data

>integrity and security.  If the receiver of this information is not the

>intended

>recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for

>delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby

>notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or

>storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have

>received this information in error, please notify the sender by return

>email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments

>from

>your system.

>

>

>

>

>

>