Re:re:identity crisis: insurance

[Guest guest]

Hi Brian, Yikes! In what ways are you seeing a declining recognition

by insurance companies?

 

 

, " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

> Yehuda,

> Not to burst your bubble but many graduates do not make it as

professionals

> after 5 years and there have been many school closings of recent

years (19).

> Add to this a declining recognition by insurance companies and

this is a

> major concern. The insurance industry is looking to hold onto its

medical

> brethren at any cost, which means letting go of more cost effective

> alternatives. Later

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> >Yehuda L Frischman <@j...>

> >

> >

> >Re: re:identity crisis

> >Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:29:41 -0800

> >

> >

> >Bob,

> >

> >We live during a time of change and evolution. Though, as we have

> >discussed, very few in America practiced more than acupuncture

during the

> >80s and early 90s, today, the obligatory and requisite course of

study

> >for students includes pretty extensive knowledge of Herbal

medicine, and

> >one token course in tuina, taiji/qi gong, and shi liao (diet

therapy).

> >Though agreed, the level, relative intensity, and volume of

clinical

> >patient load that today's student faces is significantly inferior

to the

> >student in the PRC, still, (and I have heard this from more than

one of

> >my Chinese teachers) the English program and texts we use for

herbs are

> >equivalent and at times superior to what the Chinese language

programs,

> >at least in America teach. That speaks well for the didactic end

of our

> >education, at least in herbs.

> >

> >You are correct that the dabbling we received in tuina, taiji/qi

gong and

> >shi liao is embarrassingly inadequate, if we are to practice them,

but

> >that is, I feel, the key question: what do we need to be

successful

> >clinicians? By taking introductory classes in the above three,

and by

> >taking appropriate CEU courses to supplement our education, we

have the

> >opportunity to expand the breadth of our education. Furthermore,

I

> >think you are mistaken when you contend that our practitioners are

Jacks

> >of all trades but masters of none. You are comparing apples and

oranges.

> > The environment, in the PRC, where there are the opportunities

for

> >specialization has resulted from generations of tradition, and

massive

> >numbers of patients available. This will not, for the foreseeable

> >centuries be the case here in America.

> >

> >Granted our system of education is young and immature. But I

think that

> >it will continue to improve as the quality of texts improve and the

> >requirement for clinical experience increase.

> >

> >Meanwhile, the reputation of TCM continues to grow daily,

practices are

> >increasingly busy, schools continue to grow in enrollment as the

general

> >population sees results, and the amount of malpractice claims

remain

> >negligible.

> >

> >I think that that is a pretty amazing state for our medicine to be

in,

> >just 35 years after its introduction to these shores.

> >

> >Sincerely,

> >

> >Yehuda

> >

> >

> >

> >Alon,

> >

> >In my experience, Chinese yi-sheng graduate from one of three

> >divisions within their CM colleges: 1) acupuncture-tuina, 2)

internal

> >medicine, 3) pharmacology. Even within the acupuncture division,

> >acupuncturists learn acupuncture and tuina practitioners learn

tuina.

> >They do not learn or practice both and do not receive a diploma in

> >both. Similarly, internal medicine practitioners do not learn

enough

> >acupuncture to practice it. Each learns only enough of the other's

> >modality to make knowledgable referrals and do some emergency

> >treatment if absolutely necessary.

> >

> >You, on the other hand, are saying we all need to be trained in

all of

> >it. So what you are saying is that we should be jack of all trades

but

> >master of none. As I see it, one of the big problems that we

currently

> >have in our American CM educational system is that we are asking

adult

> >learners to study and master three different modalities

(acupuncture,

> >tuina, and Chinese herbal medicine) in an abbreviated length of

time,

> >from questionable teachers, with insufficient clinical training, in

> >translation with questionable standards, and less brain cells and

> >time. If full-time Chinese students studying for 4 years in their

own

> >language beginning at 18-19 years of age, from teachers who teach

in

> >their own language, and who do internships in real hospitals under

> >experienced mentors are not asked to do this, why should we? Do we

> >know something that thousands of professional Chinese teachers and

> >academic administrators do not?

> >

> >I strongly object to this insistence on the part of some Westerners

> >that we should study and do it all.

> >

> >Bob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

brought

> >before

> >you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of

judging

> >him, judge yourself. "

> >

> >The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It has become an issue in CA reported by membership of the CSOMA, previously

posted on their website. I also have heard others having this problem as

well. Many states are having this issue. With the changing arena in CA

work comp, things are not looking so good. As CA goes, so goes the nation.

More and more carriers are denying claims unless care is provided by an MD.

What a load of crap! Obviously, this is illegal as an insurance company

cannot dictate which licensed professional performs services that are under

scope of practice. That is the job of the licensing boards. If they could

this would cause an economic favoritism. One of the main reasons for

setting up licensure is to provide a more level playing field. If services

are covered and you are licensed then it is a done deal as long as patient

has coverage and met their deductible. This is also a big reason why there

has been opposition to the Medicare acupuncture coverage act. If Medicare

covers it then insurance companies will have to as well. They do not want

to open up that flood gate of ops for the public. I am not sure what we

would do if we actually had a healthier population. Later

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

On 12/15/04 9:32 PM, " heylaurag " <heylaurag wrote:

 

>

> Hi Brian, Yikes! In what ways are you seeing a declining recognition

> by insurance companies?

>

>

> , " mike Bowser "

> <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote:

>> > Yehuda,

>> > Not to burst your bubble but many graduates do not make it as

> professionals

>> > after 5 years and there have been many school closings of recent

> years (19).

>> > Add to this a declining recognition by insurance companies and

> this is a

>> > major concern. The insurance industry is looking to hold onto its

> medical

>> > brethren at any cost, which means letting go of more cost effective

>> > alternatives. Later

>> > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>> >

>>> > >Yehuda L Frischman <@j...>

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >Re: re:identity crisis

>>> > >Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:29:41 -0800

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >Bob,

>>> > >

>>> > >We live during a time of change and evolution. Though, as we have

>>> > >discussed, very few in America practiced more than acupuncture

> during the

>>> > >80s and early 90s, today, the obligatory and requisite course of

> study

>>> > >for students includes pretty extensive knowledge of Herbal

> medicine, and

>>> > >one token course in tuina, taiji/qi gong, and shi liao (diet

> therapy).

>>> > >Though agreed, the level, relative intensity, and volume of

> clinical

>>> > >patient load that today's student faces is significantly inferior

> to the

>>> > >student in the PRC, still, (and I have heard this from more than

> one of

>>> > >my Chinese teachers) the English program and texts we use for

> herbs are

>>> > >equivalent and at times superior to what the Chinese language

> programs,

>>> > >at least in America teach. That speaks well for the didactic end

> of our

>>> > >education, at least in herbs.

>>> > >

>>> > >You are correct that the dabbling we received in tuina, taiji/qi

> gong and

>>> > >shi liao is embarrassingly inadequate, if we are to practice them,

> but

>>> > >that is, I feel, the key question: what do we need to be

> successful

>>> > >clinicians? By taking introductory classes in the above three,

> and by

>>> > >taking appropriate CEU courses to supplement our education, we

> have the

>>> > >opportunity to expand the breadth of our education. Furthermore,

> I

>>> > >think you are mistaken when you contend that our practitioners are

> Jacks

>>> > >of all trades but masters of none. You are comparing apples and

> oranges.

>>> > > The environment, in the PRC, where there are the opportunities

> for

>>> > >specialization has resulted from generations of tradition, and

> massive

>>> > >numbers of patients available. This will not, for the foreseeable

>>> > >centuries be the case here in America.

>>> > >

>>> > >Granted our system of education is young and immature. But I

> think that

>>> > >it will continue to improve as the quality of texts improve and the

>>> > >requirement for clinical experience increase.

>>> > >

>>> > >Meanwhile, the reputation of TCM continues to grow daily,

> practices are

>>> > >increasingly busy, schools continue to grow in enrollment as the

> general

>>> > >population sees results, and the amount of malpractice claims

> remain

>>> > >negligible.

>>> > >

>>> > >I think that that is a pretty amazing state for our medicine to be

> in,

>>> > >just 35 years after its introduction to these shores.

>>> > >

>>> > >Sincerely,

>>> > >

>>> > >Yehuda

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >Alon,

>>> > >

>>> > >In my experience, Chinese yi-sheng graduate from one of three

>>> > >divisions within their CM colleges: 1) acupuncture-tuina, 2)

> internal

>>> > >medicine, 3) pharmacology. Even within the acupuncture division,

>>> > >acupuncturists learn acupuncture and tuina practitioners learn

> tuina.

>>> > >They do not learn or practice both and do not receive a diploma in

>>> > >both. Similarly, internal medicine practitioners do not learn

> enough

>>> > >acupuncture to practice it. Each learns only enough of the other's

>>> > >modality to make knowledgable referrals and do some emergency

>>> > >treatment if absolutely necessary.

>>> > >

>>> > >You, on the other hand, are saying we all need to be trained in

> all of

>>> > >it. So what you are saying is that we should be jack of all trades

> but

>>> > >master of none. As I see it, one of the big problems that we

> currently

>>> > >have in our American CM educational system is that we are asking

> adult

>>> > >learners to study and master three different modalities

> (acupuncture,

>>> > >tuina, and Chinese herbal medicine) in an abbreviated length of

> time,

>>> > >from questionable teachers, with insufficient clinical training, in

>>> > >translation with questionable standards, and less brain cells and

>>> > >time. If full-time Chinese students studying for 4 years in their

> own

>>> > >language beginning at 18-19 years of age, from teachers who teach

> in

>>> > >their own language, and who do internships in real hospitals under

>>> > >experienced mentors are not asked to do this, why should we? Do we

>>> > >know something that thousands of professional Chinese teachers and

>>> > >academic administrators do not?

>>> > >

>>> > >I strongly object to this insistence on the part of some Westerners

>>> > >that we should study and do it all.

>>> > >

>>> > >Bob

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > > " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

> brought

>>> > >before

>>> > >you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of

> judging

>>> > >him, judge yourself. "

>>> > >

>>> > >The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

> approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

>

>