Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it does appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is now largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet computers are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's law. And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it won't help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we just need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged term for term translation standard. I won't bore you connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort requires such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more derivative writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on the internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get back to me with a solid rebuttal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 I for one am entirely in favor of such developments (computer-based translation tools). It will help speed up the ability for students to use the medical Chinese tools now available from Paradigm and Blue Poppy Press and begin translating articles from Chinese language journals, and eventually textbooks. There will no longer be an excuse to not teach medical Chinese at TCM colleges as required, entry level courses, or to have a standardized terminology. There are technical and licensing issues for materials such as the Wiseman dictionary, of course, that need to be discussed. Also, one still needs to learn Chinese grammar to translate effectively. Translating medical texts is a professional skill, and one still needs to concentrate on this area of development accordingly. I think a tool such as Language Weaver has the potential to close the gap between Western students and practitioners of Chinese medicine with our Asian counterparts, one of the largest credibility gaps in any profession in the world. On Dec 29, 2004, at 1:26 PM, wrote: > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it does > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is now > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet computers > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's law. > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it won't > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we just > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort requires > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more derivative > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on the > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > Todd > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, > including board approved continuing education classes, an annual > conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > I think a tool such as Language Weaver has the potential to close > the gap between Western students and practitioners of Chinese medicine > with our Asian counterparts, one of the largest credibility gaps in any > profession in the world. I know Z'ev has been a longtime advocate of computers in learning. this type of tool will not eliminate the need to use a glossary for term definitions or understanding the medicine to interpret the passages correctly. but there is no reason why such a tool could not give a faithful wiseman translation if it can be used to translate physics texts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Many translators already use the assistance of technology and standardized terms. These elements make specialized language acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, many more translated works available in the future thanks to the development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to learn and apply. Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine are of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. Eric , " " wrote: > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it does > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is now > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet computers > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's law. > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it won't > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we just > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort requires > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more derivative > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on the > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Looking them up on the internet I see the LanguageWeaver company is about 5 minutes from my house. One always hopes for some kind of collaboration with these kinds of companies. If anyone has an idea how we (acupunturists and translation companies) can mutually benefit lets explore it. If we can just get dedicated program up and running with a one to one correspondence we will be at least be 25% there to cracking thousands of books and papers. But what do I know.... rebuttals to follow. ;-) doug , " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> wrote: > > Many translators already use the assistance of technology and > standardized terms. These elements make specialized language > acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, many > more translated works available in the future thanks to the > development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, > and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to > learn and apply. > > Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine are > of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term > standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > Eric > > , " " > wrote: > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it > does > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is > now > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet > computers > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's > law. > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it > won't > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we > just > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort > requires > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more > derivative > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on > the > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts with Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our medicine from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. As there is much more to Chinese medicine than just the texts I would think that we need to know the historical information as well. To take the medicine away from its heritage is to take it out of context, which is where I think we are today. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus > > > Re: translation technology >Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:00:11 -0000 > > >Many translators already use the assistance of technology and >standardized terms. These elements make specialized language >acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, many >more translated works available in the future thanks to the >development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, >and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to >learn and apply. > >Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine are >of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term >standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope >revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like >traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > >Eric > > , " " > wrote: > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it >does > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is >now > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet >computers > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's >law. > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it >won't > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we >just > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort >requires > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more >derivative > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on >the > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts with > Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our medicine > from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. > > As there is much more to Chinese medicine than just the texts I would think > that we need to know the historical information as well. To take the > medicine away from its heritage is to take it out of context, which is where > I think we are today. > > Later > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac Our community has a number of Chinese historians who are making significant contributions to Chinese medicine. For example, Paul Unschuld. Another is Sabine Wilms, who has done extensive research on Sun Si-Miao and gynecology; she is apparently also very well- informed on many other issues relating to women in Chinese medical history. The sinologists and Chinese historians and anthropologists with an interest in Chinese medicine are already a part of our community. They just typically spend their time in larger universities or in the Orient itself. Eric Brand > > > " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> > > > > > > Re: translation technology > >Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:00:11 -0000 > > > > > >Many translators already use the assistance of technology and > >standardized terms. These elements make specialized language > >acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, many > >more translated works available in the future thanks to the > >development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, > >and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to > >learn and apply. > > > >Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine are > >of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term > >standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > >revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > >traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > > >Eric > > > > , " " > > wrote: > > > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it > >does > > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is > >now > > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet > >computers > > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's > >law. > > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it > >won't > > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we > >just > > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort > >requires > > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more > >derivative > > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on > >the > > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 One major issue is that TCM translation requires knowledge of Chinese medicine, or collaboration with editors who have: studied Chinese medicine, professional Chinese medical English, and can also read Chinese. Too many decisions need to be made based on context to decide which meaning is correct in a particular circumstance. Even though Wiseman terminology gives a way to bridge the languages, there are still some words that mean different things in different contexts (such as slippery/efflux or rough/astringent). However, WT terminology is a key element in allowing technology to facilitate translation for people who can read Chinese and are familiar with TCM expression in English. At present, outside translation teams (the big companies) have little to offer us, and no one could pay for their help with the meager earnings made by the CM publishers. Nonetheless, the technology still has already dramatically impacted the lives of the translators in the CM community. Eric , " " wrote: > > Looking them up on the internet I see the LanguageWeaver company is about 5 minutes > from my house. One always hopes for some kind of collaboration with these kinds of > companies. If anyone has an idea how we (acupunturists and translation companies) can > mutually benefit lets explore it. If we can just get dedicated program up and running with > a one to one correspondence we will be at least be 25% there to cracking thousands of > books and papers. But what do I know.... rebuttals to follow. ;-) > > doug > > > > , " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> wrote: > > > > Many translators already use the assistance of technology and > > standardized terms. These elements make specialized language > > acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, many > > more translated works available in the future thanks to the > > development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, > > and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to > > learn and apply. > > > > Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine are > > of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term > > standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > > revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > > traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > > > Eric > > > > , " " > > wrote: > > > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, it > > does > > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation of > > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer capabilities > > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion is > > now > > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because they > > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet > > computers > > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to Moore's > > law. > > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end of the > > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However it > > won't > > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed into > > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so we > > just > > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a pegged > > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort > > requires > > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more > > derivative > > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a technical > > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month on > > the > > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then get > > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 The languageweaver folks have something that looks like it could crunch all the Wiseman terms into a database and could remember many phrases and gramatical expressions in Chinese. This type of software would save many hours, even though it would still need to be managed by humans to keep it accurate. Lots of translators in Taiwan in other fields use such translation tools, and it seems like some of the expensive solutions get good reviews, at least for other subjects of a technical nature. Eric , " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> wrote: > > One major issue is that TCM translation requires knowledge of > Chinese medicine, or collaboration with editors who have: studied > Chinese medicine, professional Chinese medical English, and can also > read Chinese. Too many decisions need to be made based on context > to decide which meaning is correct in a particular circumstance. > Even though Wiseman terminology gives a way to bridge the languages, > there are still some words that mean different things in different > contexts (such as slippery/efflux or rough/astringent). However, WT > terminology is a key element in allowing technology to facilitate > translation for people who can read Chinese and are familiar with > TCM expression in English. At present, outside translation teams > (the big companies) have little to offer us, and no one could pay > for their help with the meager earnings made by the CM publishers. > Nonetheless, the technology still has already dramatically impacted > the lives of the translators in the CM community. > > Eric > > , " " > wrote: > > > > Looking them up on the internet I see the LanguageWeaver company > is about 5 minutes > > from my house. One always hopes for some kind of collaboration > with these kinds of > > companies. If anyone has an idea how we (acupunturists and > translation companies) can > > mutually benefit lets explore it. If we can just get dedicated > program up and running with > > a one to one correspondence we will be at least be 25% there to > cracking thousands of > > books and papers. But what do I know.... rebuttals to follow. ;- ) > > > > doug > > > > > > > > , " smilinglotus " > <smilinglotus> wrote: > > > > > > Many translators already use the assistance of technology and > > > standardized terms. These elements make specialized language > > > acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, > many > > > more translated works available in the future thanks to the > > > development of term standards, responsible methods of > translation, > > > and the computer tools that make the translation process easier > to > > > learn and apply. > > > > > > Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine > are > > > of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term > > > standards and computers revolutionize the task like the > telescope > > > revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > > > traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > , " " > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, > it > > > does > > > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation > of > > > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer > capabilities > > > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion > is > > > now > > > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because > they > > > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet > > > computers > > > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to > Moore's > > > law. > > > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end > of the > > > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However > it > > > won't > > > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed > into > > > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so > we > > > just > > > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a > pegged > > > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort > > > requires > > > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more > > > derivative > > > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a > technical > > > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month > on > > > the > > > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then > get > > > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Other than Unschuld I have not seen a great interest or presence. I think that inclusion of their ideas can be very helpful and supportive. More strength in numbers as they say and also more knowledge for our developmental understanding. Later Mike W.Bowser, L Ac > " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus > > > Re: translation technology >Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:48:14 -0000 > > > , " mike Bowser " ><naturaldoc1@h...> wrote: > > So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts >with > > Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our >medicine > > from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. > > > > As there is much more to Chinese medicine than just the texts I >would think > > that we need to know the historical information as well. To take >the > > medicine away from its heritage is to take it out of context, >which is where > > I think we are today. > > > > Later > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > >Our community has a number of Chinese historians who are making >significant contributions to Chinese medicine. For example, Paul >Unschuld. Another is Sabine Wilms, who has done extensive research >on Sun Si-Miao and gynecology; she is apparently also very well- >informed on many other issues relating to women in Chinese medical >history. > >The sinologists and Chinese historians and anthropologists with an >interest in Chinese medicine are already a part of our community. >They just typically spend their time in larger universities or in >the Orient itself. > >Eric Brand > > > > > > " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> > > > > > > > > > Re: translation technology > > >Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:00:11 -0000 > > > > > > > > >Many translators already use the assistance of technology and > > >standardized terms. These elements make specialized language > > >acquisition much more efficient. Our community will have many, >many > > >more translated works available in the future thanks to the > > >development of term standards, responsible methods of translation, > > >and the computer tools that make the translation process easier to > > >learn and apply. > > > > > >Tools that help us access the source literature of our medicine >are > > >of great benefit. For the people who are translating, term > > >standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > > >revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > > >traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > > > > >Eric > > > > > > , " " > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > http://www.languageweaver.com/article_77.php > > > > > > > > despite the inevitable protestations from the peanut gallery, >it > > >does > > > > appear very likely that the objections to machine translation >of > > > > chinese to english will soon be moot. With computer >capabilities > > > > doubling every 18 months, the last time we had this discussion >is > > >now > > > > largely irrelevant. People dismissed this possibility because >they > > > > had prior experiences that were unsatisfactory in 2001. Yet > > >computers > > > > are almost 8 times more powerful since then according to >Moore's > > >law. > > > > And there have been concurrent advances in undertstanding and > > > > programming as well. The light really is visible at the end >of the > > > > tunnel. Soon the lack of access issue will be moot. However >it > > >won't > > > > help us out unless our specialized dictionary is programmed >into > > > > something like dreamweaver. Apparently, there is a way, so >we > > >just > > > > need the will. I think this also underscores the need for a >pegged > > > > term for term translation standard. I won't bore you > > > > connotationalists with the details, but software of this sort > > >requires > > > > such a standard in order to work. This doesn't stop a more > > >derivative > > > > writer from then drawing connotations and rewriting the text in > > > > whatever they consider to be an appropriate style for a >technical > > > > jargon. Before any of you say it aint possible, spend a month >on > > >the > > > > internet researching recent advancements in computers and then >get > > > > back to me with a solid rebuttal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 " So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts with Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our medicine from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. " Are you kidding? This profession is not interested in academics, such as the history of our medicine. Hell, some schools don't even have a class in CM history even though it is mandated by the NCCAOM curriculum guidelines. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 No rebuttal from me. I just wonder if our lack of economic clout as a profession doesn't allow such collaborations to occur so easily. That certainly is my experience from trying to collaborate a pharmacological search database for Chinese medicines with a scientific database company. On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:44 PM, wrote: > > Looking them up on the internet I see the LanguageWeaver company is > about 5 minutes > from my house. One always hopes for some kind of collaboration with > these kinds of > companies. If anyone has an idea how we (acupunturists and > translation companies) can > mutually benefit lets explore it. If we can just get dedicated > program up and running with > a one to one correspondence we will be at least be 25% there to > cracking thousands of > books and papers. But what do I know.... rebuttals to follow. ;-) > > doug > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I hate to be cynical, But overall we've done little to make these historians and sinologists part of the Chinese medical community on an active basis. Paul Unschuld is still routinely attacked for his views, and several of the anthropologists such as Charlotte Furth (here in California) have no interaction with the professional CM community. Sabine, on the other hand, is a refugee from a subsection of academia who treat the subject as an intellectual curiosity rather than a living practice. We've got a lot of work to do to bring these two fields together. On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:48 AM, smilinglotus wrote: > > Our community has a number of Chinese historians who are making > significant contributions to Chinese medicine. For example, Paul > Unschuld. Another is Sabine Wilms, who has done extensive research > on Sun Si-Miao and gynecology; she is apparently also very well- > informed on many other issues relating to women in Chinese medical > history. > > The sinologists and Chinese historians and anthropologists with an > interest in Chinese medicine are already a part of our community. > They just typically spend their time in larger universities or in > the Orient itself. > > Eric Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I agree that CM translation requires these skills. However, as you point out, economics is a deciding factor on being able to access these new technologies and companies willing to help us. That is certainly my experience. On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:58 AM, smilinglotus wrote: > > One major issue is that TCM translation requires knowledge of > Chinese medicine, or collaboration with editors who have: studied > Chinese medicine, professional Chinese medical English, and can also > read Chinese. Too many decisions need to be made based on context > to decide which meaning is correct in a particular circumstance. > Even though Wiseman terminology gives a way to bridge the languages, > there are still some words that mean different things in different > contexts (such as slippery/efflux or rough/astringent). However, WT > terminology is a key element in allowing technology to facilitate > translation for people who can read Chinese and are familiar with > TCM expression in English. At present, outside translation teams > (the big companies) have little to offer us, and no one could pay > for their help with the meager earnings made by the CM publishers. > Nonetheless, the technology still has already dramatically impacted > the lives of the translators in the CM community. > > Eric > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I helped arrange a collaboration with speakers from Pacific Symposium (including Dan Bensky and Nigel Wiseman) with some of the major Chinese anthropologist/sociologists at UCSD back in 2000 (including Charlotte Furth, Marta Hansen and Charlotte Furth). It was the first meeting of its kind, and it was interesting to see how little interaction there was between the fields up to this point. I also worked on getting Marta Hansen to teach a course at PCOM. It was a beginning, but we need to follow up on it. Paul Unschuld, of course, spoke at Pacific Symposium last year. On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:56 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts with > Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our > medicine > from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well, Bob, we need to change this. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001 > > > Re: translation technology >Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:57:37 -0000 > > > " So what is the profession doing to establish professional contacts >with Chinese anthropology or sociology? We can learn a lot about our >medicine from ancient tombs and discovered artifacts. " > >Are you kidding? This profession is not interested in academics, such >as the history of our medicine. Hell, some schools don't even have a >class in CM history even though it is mandated by the NCCAOM >curriculum guidelines. > >Bob > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 M-m-m Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> wrote: For the people who are translating, term > standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. well put. let's not be the church fathers of our day who refused to look thru galileo's telescope so that they would not see the heresy. Anyone dismissing these tools is just a modern day zealot of another sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , " smilinglotus " <smilinglotus> wrote: > > One major issue is that TCM translation requires knowledge of > Chinese medicine, or collaboration with editors who have: studied > Chinese medicine, professional Chinese medical English, and can also > read Chinese. Too many decisions need to be made based on context > to decide which meaning is correct in a particular circumstance. but flexible computer algorithms can be written for all these things. like I said, if you can do it with physics, you can do it with TCM. but we will need a TCM expert as part of the team. sounds like doug has the right proximity, interest, expertise, language training and knowledge of computers to make first contact. The digital dictionary exists. Its a mtter of how do we get it into the software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > I agree that CM translation requires these skills. However, as you > point out, economics is a deciding factor on being able to access these > new technologies and companies willing to help us. That is certainly > my experience. > good point. small market of luddites will yield little interest from capitalists. c'est la ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > No rebuttal from me. I just wonder if our lack of economic clout as a > profession doesn't allow such collaborations to occur so easily. That > certainly is my experience from trying to collaborate a pharmacological > search database for Chinese medicines with a scientific database > company. Yeah, I should be realistic. Never gonna happen no how inside our profession. Ask Roger how hard it is to sell software to a community that is still waiting for the apocalypse and a return to some romanticized paradise of yore. this is just one more thing that will either get done by a med school or NIH instead. Our pro orgs, schools and herb companies could pick up the tab, but they all apparently have more important things to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 While I am certainly in favor of modern technology correctly applied, there are times when it is more pleasant to take a covered wagon. I'd like to have the choice. On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:05 PM, wrote: > > For the people who are translating, term > > standards and computers revolutionize the task like the telescope > > revolutionized astronomy. Resisting these developments is like > > traveling by covered wagon when you could take a jet airplane. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 At 8:12 AM -0800 12/30/04, wrote: >We've got a lot of work to do to bring these two fields together. -- IASTAM, The International Association for the Study of Traditional Asian Medicine, exists precisely for this purpose. I just attended their annual conference in London. Next year it will be held in Austin, Texas. Let's hope all those who believe in more contact between academia and practitioners join, and will make a point of being at the conference. They also are starting a journal, due out shortly. http://www.iastam.org/home.htm Form their web site: >Welcome to the IASTAM web site > >IASTAM is an international organisation in the field of Asian >medicine making a serious attempt to embrace both academics and >practitioners. IASTAM has always sought to give each of these >communities a platform for the expression of their views, respecting >the integrity of each group while nevertheless privileging the free >exchange of knowledge over involvement in any particular commercial >interest or therapeutic regime. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yes, I d to their journal and newsletter last spring. . . I've been waiting a long time for the journal. I hope to attend their conference in Austin next year. Can you report on the conference for us, and tell others on this list more about the organization? Thanks, On Dec 30, 2004, at 5:27 PM, Rory Kerr wrote: > > IASTAM, The International Association for the Study of Traditional > Asian Medicine, exists precisely for this purpose. I just attended > their annual conference in London. Next year it will be held in > Austin, Texas. Let's hope all those who believe in more contact > between academia and practitioners join, and will make a point of > being at the conference. They also are starting a journal, due out > shortly. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 At 10:30 PM -0800 12/30/04, wrote: >I've been waiting a long time for the journal. -- I saw galleys when I was in London, so I imagine it will be quite soon. I'll try to do a short report on the IASTAM conference later today. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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