Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 http://.org/LHCblogs.shtml My thoughts on LHC are posted at the address above. I pretty much agree with the recommendations of the LHC report, so that blog does represent my position on what has been said here on this topic. I am not sure what else anyone might want me to say. You can be sure that if anyone makes a case that I feel is deserving of further rebuttal, I will reply. I certainly have no idea what it means that it is a good thing I am not participating. If that is meant to be a personal attack, please address me outside the group. In addition, it has just been reported to me by Tom Haines, dean at PCOM, that as a result of the meeting in Sacramento on these issues, the board is now expected to comply with the implementation of the LHC recommendations or it may be disbanded. In other words, wheels were spun, money was wasted and time spent trying to maintain a status quo that was unwinnable from the outset. that is my problem witgh this process. No attention to the art of war at all. Instead, trying to play it cowboy style, which only works when you are the biggest and strongest. So I guess most of this " debate " is pretty much moot at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Interesting take on things. As I am sure that you have read the CAB statements in which they already claim to be in agreement with LHC on most of the items or that more info was needed. So I guess this is a matter of spin. By the way, it is hard to do anything when the board does not have a quorum. It would be easy to say do it or else but in this case it's simply not possible. So, what about the board's positional statements and also when are they going to get nominees to make a quorum? This is not the end of things just the beginning. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " < > > > my participation >Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:41:25 -0000 > > >http://.org/LHCblogs.shtml > >My thoughts on LHC are posted at the address above. I pretty much agree >with the >recommendations of the LHC report, so that blog does represent my position >on what has >been said here on this topic. I am not sure what else anyone might want me >to say. You >can be sure that if anyone makes a case that I feel is deserving of further >rebuttal, I will >reply. I certainly have no idea what it means that it is a good thing I am >not participating. >If that is meant to be a personal attack, please address me outside the >group. > >In addition, it has just been reported to me by Tom Haines, dean at PCOM, >that as a result >of the meeting in Sacramento on these issues, the board is now expected to >comply with >the implementation of the LHC recommendations or it may be disbanded. In >other words, >wheels were spun, money was wasted and time spent trying to maintain a >status quo that >was unwinnable from the outset. that is my problem witgh this process. No >attention to >the art of war at all. Instead, trying to play it cowboy style, which only >works when you are >the biggest and strongest. So I guess most of this " debate " is pretty much >moot at this >point. > >Todd > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 In a message dated 1/6/05 5:43:23 PM, writes: > In addition, it has just been reported to me by Tom Haines, dean at PCOM, > that as a result > of the meeting in Sacramento on these issues, the board is now expected to > comply with > the implementation of the LHC recommendations or it may be disbanded. > Sounds like school spin. DAVE David Molony 101 Bridge Street Catasauqua, PA 18032 Phone (610)264-2755 Fax (610) 264-7292 **********Confidentiality Notice ********** This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 This type of rumor mongering doesn't belong on the CHA, in my opinion. Let's see some facts. On Jan 11, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: > Sounds like school spin. > >>>The LHC conclusions is a product of the schools, NCCA and their > efforts > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 At 12:26 PM -0800 1/11/05, Alon Marcus wrote: > >>>The LHC conclusions is a product of the schools, NCCA and their efforts -- Alon, It sounds as if you're saying the LHC was biased, or perhaps even corrupt. Living in New York, I'm pretty much out of touch with what happened, although I did read some of the report, and the legislative counsel summary. Would you give us examples of what you are saying. I think its likely that both the schools and the NCCAOM had as much input as they felt they needed to; after all, as power centers with a lot at stake, which both the schools and the NCCAOM are, they have the resources to organize and make their voices heard. However, the NCCAOM hardly got what it wanted out of the LHC report. The LHC recommended against using the NCCAOM exams in California, which must have been quite disappointing for them. Who are you saying did not get their voices heard, or taken account of? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 At 8:35 PM -0500 1/10/05, acuman1 wrote: >In a message dated 1/6/05 5:43:23 PM, writes: >> In addition, it has just been reported to me by Tom Haines, dean at PCOM, >> that as a result >> of the meeting in Sacramento on these issues, the board is now expected to >> comply with >> the implementation of the LHC recommendations or it may be disbanded. >> > >Sounds like school spin. -- Dave, Why does it sound like school spin? Would you define the interest the schools (or PCOM) would have here (as you see it)? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Alon, If the schools are forced to farm out students for their biomedical studies to colleges and universities, or it is a pre-registration requirement, how does that benefit the schools? On Jan 11, 2005, at 11:05 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: > The schools and NCCAOM had a very strong presence and most of their > testimony was inline with the LHC conclusions. I was not their but > have spoke to David Wells who testified and told me the practitioners > were outgunned. Just like all other professions we are all about $ and > interest groups. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 In a message dated 1/11/05 9:34:58 AM, rorykerr writes: > >> In addition, it has just been reported to me by Tom Haines, dean at > PCOM, > >> that as a result > >> of the meeting in Sacramento on these issues, the board is now expected > to > >> comply with > >> the implementation of the LHC recommendations or it may be disbanded. > >> > > > >Sounds like school spin. > -- > > Dave, > > Why does it sound like school spin? Would you define the interest the > schools (or PCOM) would have here (as you see it)? > > Rory > The schools and the board, who have held the schools feet to the fire regarding the training of our profession and their responsibility to the consumers for adequate training for many years. The spin means that it is the sort of thing at least many of the schools might like to see, that is, the end of a profession dominated board of acupuncture. David Molony David Molony 101 Bridge Street Catasauqua, PA 18032 Phone (610)264-2755 Fax (610) 264-7292 **********Confidentiality Notice ********** This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 At 11:05 PM -0800 1/11/05, Alon Marcus wrote: >The schools and NCCAOM had a very strong presence and most of their >testimony was inline with the LHC conclusions. I was not their but >have spoke to David Wells who testified and told me the >practitioners were outgunned. -- Nevetheless, NCCAOM did not get the main thing they are looking for, which is to take over the CA exams. I'm sorry the the practitioners were unable to make their case sufficiently well, but this is typical. Practitioners get what they deserve in this respect, as for the most part they are unwilling to contribute, either in dollars or time, to the organizations that could represent them. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Sounds like school spin. >>>The LHC conclusions is a product of the schools, NCCA and their efforts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 The schools and NCCAOM had a very strong presence and most of their testimony was inline with the LHC conclusions. I was not their but have spoke to David Wells who testified and told me the practitioners were outgunned. Just like all other professions we are all about $ and interest groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Alon, If the schools are forced to farm out students for their biomedical studies to colleges and universities, or it is a pre-registration requirement, how does that benefit the schools? >>>>They are not being forced to. I would like to see them forced to do just that. I would like to see some real clinical courses taken in real medical institusions, anatomy taught at a medical level etc. If this was part of the training programs then the school could teach only the CM curriculum and that would be the best way to go about it. At this point most schools teach their own mikymouse biomedical clinical courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I'm sorry the the practitioners were unable to make their case sufficiently well, but this is typical. Practitioners get what they deserve in this respect, as for the most part they are unwilling to contribute, either in dollars or time, to the organizations that could represent them >>>I agree, even association membership is very low alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 > > Alon Marcus [alonmarcus] their own mikymouse biomedical clinical courses. > [Jason] I think mickymouse is way to kind... -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Although we all tend to think this way, I have often read many a question about a western medical condition on this site. So either we all spent a lot of time researching medicine or maybe we got something out of our schooling or both. I put myself in the both category. In retrospect, how many of us have reported these educational concerns back to our schools so that they might make changes? Communication is important and much better than grumbling. Later Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > " " > > >RE: my participation >Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:20:30 -0700 > > > > > > > Alon Marcus [alonmarcus] >their own mikymouse biomedical clinical courses. > > >[Jason] >I think mickymouse is way to kind... > >-Jason > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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