Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 See: http://rense.com/general62/potentiallyharmfulfluoride.htm Potentially Harmful Fluoride Levels In Some Instant Teas Washington University School Of Medicine I'd also add that levels of fluoride are high in almost all types of green and black teas (Camellia sinensis). I notice that the new Chen and Chen materia medica includes an entry for green (lu cha) and black (wu long cha) tea, with no mention of side effects or toxicity due to fluoride. I see the type of symptoms discussed in the article above in my practice, and I always ask about coffee, tea, and cholocate consumption. In addition, fluoride is an immune suppressant, an aspect not discussed in the above article. Ideally, I would like to see Chinese herb distributors monitor for fluoride content, which tends to increase when tea is grown in polluted environments. It would be nice to get the therapeutic properties of tea with a minimum of fluoride. ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 , rw2@r... wrote: > >> I see the type of symptoms discussed in the article above in my practice, and I always ask about coffee, tea, and cholocate consumption. In addition, fluoride is an immune suppressant, an aspect not discussed in the above article. > Roger, Having given up coffee years ago and now reading this about tea I suppose it would be wise to give it up as well. However there is some good news from Nature about wine and women. Thank goodness!! http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050117/full/050117-10.html Jill Likkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 , rw2@r... wrote: > > Ideally, I would like to see Chinese herb distributors monitor for fluoride content, which tends to increase when tea is grown in polluted environments. It would be nice to get the therapeutic properties of tea with a minimum of fluoride. > I wonder about organic teas. I am sure this data is based upon commerical tea, probably low quality mass production (I mean instant tea, come on, no serious tea drinker would touch it). americans drink cheap tea high in caffeine and low in theanine and apparently high in flouride. If this were also true of japanese green tea, I suspect their health stats would be quite different. In addition, I do not believe all persons are susceptible to any significant effects from low grade heavy metal toxicity. Much of the hoopla surrounding heavy metals in CA implicates the naturally occurring heavy metal levels of things like Arsenic. Roger has noted that 10-20% of his patients have significant enough metal accumulation to impact their health in an obvious way. I would suggest that it is not excessive exposure in many of these cases, but rather weak resistance. A recent study showed that animals and likely humans have a built-in genetic capacity for fitness that cannot be increased past a certain point regardless of diet or exercise. Thus, the image of the canaries in the mineshaft is a perhaps not a harbinger for the rest of us, but rather an indication of lack of fitness for a portion of the population. I still think we should do something about this, but it may be that the beneficial effects of good quality tea more than offset any negatives for the bulk of the population. Most people's health problems can be explained without resort to things like allergies, heavy metals, etc. Merely overeating is the cause in 67% of the population. Roger is probably right on with his estimate of 10- 20% who have unusual conditions that defy explanation. Whether they are all due to heavy metals, I cannot say. I can say that this group is not really my interest anymore, though. I am more interested in the other 80-90% who I know what's wrong with and what to do. Just don't think I am smart enough to figure out the last piece of the puzzle here. but I am sure the consumption of tea is the not the crux of poor health for the bulk of the population (especially since so little tea is consumed in the US other than instant iced tea and the folks who drink that crap also eat fast food and soft drinks and smoke cigarettes, so go figger). I find the evidence against coffee, tea and chocolate completely underwhelming and can't help but think that some staked out an anti-stimulant position a long time ago and hold to it despite the increrasing evidence to the contrary. For example, if you looked at the research on caffeine with the word caffeine left out, you would say gimme some of that stuff now. Epidemiology is really the only solid data in medicine, IMO. You can specualte all you want in basic science and even draw erroneous conclusions from clinical research, but you cannot deny the links between smoking and cancer, for example. No such link exists for tea, quite the reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 A lot of my opinions about tea are based on personal experience, both myself and clients. Soemtimes what I see personally differs from what the " conventional wisdom " is. I don't know why industry magazines have been hyping tea. There are other herbalists who have noted the same side effects from tea that I have, though. But I am suspicious of the studies that show green tea is good for cancer, when they discuss only the polyphenol content, yet ignore the fluoride aspect, because fluoride is a carcinogen. Most of the studies I've read claim that, if anything, the anti-cancer effect is very mild, so it does not deserve all the hype it's been receiving. And the Japanese study based on epidemiological data is difficult to interpret. There are many other lifestyle factors that might also explain why the Japanase have lower rates of certain cancers. Epidemiological studies, for that reason, are generally not proof of anything, only a reason to continue looking further, and eventually doing more controlled research to prove something. Chen and CHen's textbook generally does a good job of presenting the toxic side effects of many herbs, and in some cases I believe, mention side effects that are rare and that most practioners will never see. Yet in the case of tea, I feel there is a glaring omission. I'm not claiming that no one should ever drink tea. As Chen points out, it has certain TCM functions, that are beneficial. I have a student who finds that the theophylline content of tea seems to help him stop an asthma atack. Roger > Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:20:29 -0000 > " " < >Re: tea toxicity > > , rw2@r... wrote: > >> >> Ideally, I would like to see Chinese herb distributors monitor for fluoride content, which >tends to increase when tea is grown in polluted environments. It would be nice to get the >therapeutic properties of tea with a minimum of fluoride. >> > >I wonder about organic teas. I am sure this data is based upon commerical tea, probably >low quality mass production (I mean instant tea, come on, no serious tea drinker would >touch it). americans drink cheap tea high in caffeine and low in theanine and apparently >high in flouride. If this were also true of japanese green tea, I suspect their health stats >would be quite different. In addition, I do not believe all persons are susceptible to any >significant effects from low grade heavy metal toxicity. Much of the hoopla surrounding >heavy metals in CA implicates the naturally occurring heavy metal levels of things like >Arsenic. Roger has noted that 10-20% of his patients have significant enough metal >accumulation to impact their health in an obvious way. I would suggest that it is not >excessive exposure in many of these cases, but rather weak resistance. A recent study >showed that animals and likely humans have a built-in genetic capacity for fitness that >cannot be increased past a certain point regardless of diet or exercise. Thus, the image of >the canaries in the mineshaft is a perhaps not a harbinger for the rest of us, but rather an >indication of lack of fitness for a portion of the population. > >I still think we should do something about this, but it may be that the beneficial effects of >good quality tea more than offset any negatives for the bulk of the population. Most >people's health problems can be explained without resort to things like allergies, heavy >metals, etc. Merely overeating is the cause in 67% of the population. Roger is probably >right on with his estimate of 10- 20% who have unusual conditions that defy explanation. >Whether they are all due to heavy metals, I cannot say. I can say that this group is not >really my interest anymore, though. I am more interested in the other 80-90% who I know >what's wrong with and what to do. Just don't think I am smart enough to figure out the >last piece of the puzzle here. but I am sure the consumption of tea is the not the crux of >poor health for the bulk of the population (especially since so little tea is consumed in the >US other than instant iced tea and the folks who drink that crap also eat fast food and soft >drinks and smoke cigarettes, so go figger). I find the evidence against coffee, tea and >chocolate completely underwhelming and can't help but think that some staked out an >anti-stimulant position a long time ago and hold to it despite the increrasing evidence to >the contrary. For example, if you looked at the research on caffeine with the word caffeine >left out, you would say gimme some of that stuff now. Epidemiology is really the only >solid data in medicine, IMO. You can specualte all you want in basic science and even >draw erroneous conclusions from clinical research, but you cannot deny the links between >smoking and cancer, for example. No such link exists for tea, quite the reverse. > >Todd > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > >------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 One thing I'd like to point out is that I think substances like tea and coffee are used as medicines in an attempt to deal with the increasing speed of urban life. Living more and more outside of natural rhythms and environments leads to an exponential dependence on artificial sources of energy. I know, Roger, you must draw much qi and strength from living in such a powerful environment as rural Montana. For myself, I drew a lot of strength from the mountains and deserts of New Mexico when I lived outside of Santa Fe. Although I still eat natural foods and live a healthy lifestyle, and San Diego is a relatively healthy living environment, I miss the resource of drawing inspiration and healing from stepping outside and feeling the immense power of high altitude sun, earth and clear skies. On Jan 27, 2005, at 10:11 AM, rw2 wrote: > Chen and CHen's textbook generally does a good job of presenting the > toxic side effects of many herbs, and in some cases I believe, mention > side effects that are rare and that most practioners will never see. > Yet in the case of tea, I feel there is a glaring omission. I'm not > claiming that no one should ever drink tea. As Chen points out, it has > certain TCM functions, that are beneficial. I have a student who finds > that the theophylline content of tea seems to help him stop an asthma > atack. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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