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I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our profession / Wiseman

translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

 

 

 

A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as common

cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language teacher (no

medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and she said common

cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe presentations

such as deadly flues and she said no.

 

But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with Flue, Upper

respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal epidemic

pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted patterns, making

it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it completely depends

on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society common cold

has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what people on this

list think common cold means to them, and if they think that this suits the

disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a better

translation? In my translations I have just left the term in pinyin because

it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the Chinese use

the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the Wiseman

terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe that is just

me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no response, so I

ask you . Comments?

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

tel:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621> Add me

to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature

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I think common Cold/Gan Mao may be pretty severe but perhaps not deadly flu.

When I saw one of my colleagues sneezing I asked if he was " gan mao? " but he

just smiled

and replied, " xiao feng " .

doug

 

 

 

, " " <@c...>

wrote:

> I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our profession / Wiseman

> translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

>

>

>

> A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as common

> cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language teacher (no

> medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and she said common

> cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe presentations

> such as deadly flues and she said no.

>

> But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with Flue, Upper

> respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal epidemic

> pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted patterns, making

> it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it completely depends

> on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society common cold

> has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what people on this

> list think common cold means to them, and if they think that this suits the

> disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a better

> translation? In my translations I have just left the term in pinyin because

> it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the Chinese use

> the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the Wiseman

> terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe that is just

> me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no response, so I

> ask you . Comments?

>

>

>

> -Jason

>

>

>

 

>

> tel:

>

>

<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621>

Add me

> to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a signature

> like this?

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>

> []

> Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:22 PM

>

> Re: gan mao

>

>

>

> I think common Cold/Gan Mao may be pretty severe but perhaps not deadly

> flu.

> When I saw one of my colleagues sneezing I asked if he was " gan mao? " but

> he just smiled

> and replied, " xiao feng " .

> doug

>

[Jason]

Doug,

 

I think this kind of proves one of my points about terminology... Gan mao,

for some Chinese authors and doctors, clearly includes influenza, which can

kill people. Some may, as you point out, consider it less severe, or

something different entirely. My point is, if it is clear that SOME Chinese

use the term ganmao in a broader context, which from my perspective is true,

then does 'common cold' suit such a translation / definition?...

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

>

>

> , " " <@c...>

> wrote:

> > I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our profession /

> Wiseman

> > translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

> >

> >

> >

> > A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as

> common

> > cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language teacher (no

> > medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and she said

> common

> > cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe

> presentations

> > such as deadly flues and she said no.

> >

> > But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with Flue,

> Upper

> > respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal epidemic

> > pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted patterns,

> making

> > it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it completely

> depends

> > on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society common

> cold

> > has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what people on

> this

> > list think common cold means to them, and if they think that this suits

> the

> > disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a better

> > translation? In my translations I have just left the term in pinyin

> because

> > it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the Chinese

> use

> > the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the Wiseman

> > terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe that is

> just

> > me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no response, so

> I

> > ask you . Comments?

> >

> >

> >

> > -Jason

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > tel:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621>

> Add me

> > to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a

> signature

> > like this?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I've always assumes that gan mao was the prodromal phase of a viral disease,

since they manifest the same and tend to get treated the same.

-

" "

 

Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:40 PM

RE: Re: gan mao

 

 

>

>

>

>>

>> []

>> Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:22 PM

>>

>> Re: gan mao

>>

>>

>>

>> I think common Cold/Gan Mao may be pretty severe but perhaps not deadly

>> flu.

>> When I saw one of my colleagues sneezing I asked if he was " gan mao? " but

>> he just smiled

>> and replied, " xiao feng " .

>> doug

>>

> [Jason]

> Doug,

>

> I think this kind of proves one of my points about terminology... Gan mao,

> for some Chinese authors and doctors, clearly includes influenza, which

> can

> kill people. Some may, as you point out, consider it less severe, or

> something different entirely. My point is, if it is clear that SOME

> Chinese

> use the term ganmao in a broader context, which from my perspective is

> true,

> then does 'common cold' suit such a translation / definition?...

>

> -Jason

>

>

>

>

>>

>>

>> , " "

>> <@c...>

>> wrote:

>> > I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our profession /

>> Wiseman

>> > translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as

>> common

>> > cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language teacher (no

>> > medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and she said

>> common

>> > cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe

>> presentations

>> > such as deadly flues and she said no.

>> >

>> > But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with Flue,

>> Upper

>> > respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal epidemic

>> > pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted patterns,

>> making

>> > it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it completely

>> depends

>> > on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society common

>> cold

>> > has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what people on

>> this

>> > list think common cold means to them, and if they think that this suits

>> the

>> > disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a better

>> > translation? In my translations I have just left the term in pinyin

>> because

>> > it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the Chinese

>> use

>> > the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the Wiseman

>> > terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe that is

>> just

>> > me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no response,

>> > so

>> I

>> > ask you . Comments?

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > -Jason

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > tel:

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621>

>> Add me

>> > to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a

>> signature

>> > like this?

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

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Share on other sites

Chinese medical theory did not historically recognize viruses and

bacteria as causes of disease because they did not possess the

technology to perceive them. The distinction between influenza

viruses and coryza viruses is a distinction made by modern medicine.

It is a distinction that is made in our culture as well as in modern

Chinese culture, but it is not a distinction that was historically

present. Wai gan (externally contracted) diseases include conditions

with a wider range of severity than the colloquial use of common cold

implies in English.

 

Gan mao presentations generally correspond to common cold. Because the

parameters of disease classification in Chinese medicine are not

mutually exclusive, practitioners can use different diagnostic systems

to describe the same illness. Thus, the same condition can be

described through cold damage theory (shang han), warm disease theory

(wen bing), or the disease classifications and patterns breakdowns

found in texts organized by TCM diseases.

 

The fact that the heading of gan mao as a disease category contains

multiple patterns of varying symptoms and severities tells us that the

concept of common cold in Chinese medicine is wider than that of

Western medicine. Because of the inability to differentiate influenza

from coryza viruses, or viruses from bacteria, the conditions were

described by the prominence of symptoms, the severity, and the

patterns. Most gan mao cases, are in fact, common colds, thus common

cold is used as a translation for gan mao. However, when learning

Chinese medical theory, one must understand that the Chinese concept

of a common cold includes conditions that are classified as influenza

in modern medicine.

 

Generally, anything that is as severe as a life-threatening flu is

going to be perceived and assessed through a variety of diagnostic

parameters. It may be described using shang han theory or wen bing

theory in addition to being classified as a case of external

contraction with heat toxins (for example). None of these are

mutually exclusive.

 

Common cold is a phrase in English that is often used by the general

public as a LGP (language for general purposes) term. Practitioners

of Chinese medicine use the phrase common cold as an LSP (language for

special purposes) term rather than an LGP term, because our definition

of the word is specific to Chinese medical theory. As professionals,

our definition of common cold reflects the traditional Chinese disease

category, complete with its nebulous understanding (in the eyes of

science) of causative factors and its wider range of possible severity

and progression. Confusion between the traditional Chinese concept of

common cold and the Western concept of common cold is thus caused by a

failure to understand what the full range of common cold includes in

Chinese medical theory vs. WM theory. Common cold means one thing

when used as an LGP term in colloquial English, it means a different

thing when used as an LSP term in CM.

 

Because most people on this list are experienced practitioners, we

have all learned that there is a different definition of common cold

in Chinese medicine than there is in Western medicine. The assumption

of students that there is a one-to-one correlation between Chinese

medical concepts and Western concepts is the only source of confusion

here. If students understand what common cold includes in Chinese

medical terms, they will have no problem integrating the fact that it

includes things that WM would classify as influenza. Any shortcomings

in this understanding are due to a poor education in Chinese medical

theory, not a poor translation of the term gan mao.

 

Chinese medicine abounds with many concepts that are not identical to

Western concepts. We cannot use pinyin to translate all of these

terms, because there are too many such terms and too many homophones.

The only solution is to use English words and to teach students

that these words have a special meaning in the context of Chinese

medicine. This is not a difficult thing for most students to

grasp, so it is a good solution for the problem of how to transmit

Chinese medical information (the ultimate goal of CM translation).

Let's look a few examples:

 

Jin1 is translated by Wiseman as " sinew(s), " but it is often

translated as " tendon(s). " A tendon in the West is a type of tissue

that joins the end of each muscle belly to the bone that it attaches

to. In Chinese medicine, a jin1 is any type of ropy tissue that can

be " plucked " (if you think back to your tui na classes)- plucking is a

technique that is applied to jin1. So some things that are classified

as jin1 in CM are actually muscle bellies in WM, such as the SCM or

the upper part of the Trapezius. Because these things are definitely

not tendons, " tendon " is a poor translation for jin1. Wiseman calls

these " sinews " to reinforce the notion that they describe ropy flesh

that includes, but is not limited to, tendons. An English term is

preferable to pinyin here, because jin pronounced in the identical

tone can also mean a unit of measurement (=600g everywhere but within

the PRC, where it =500g), metal, or liquids. If we say that the liver

nourishes the jin1, we cannot discern whether the liver nourishes

metal, whether it nourishes liquids, or nourishes the sinews. So

pinyin is out. Incidentally, metal and liquids are both LGP terms in

normal English that have an LSP usage in Chinese medicine. No one on

this list confuses the Chinese concept of metal (in the 5 phases) with

the Western concept of metal, nor do we confuse the CM concept of

liquids (jin as in jin-ye, again an LSP use) with the Western concept

of liquids. Why should gan mao be any more difficult to learn as an

LSP term than any of these others?

 

No one is arguing that we translate metal or fluids any differently,

even though they have an LSP use in CM that differs from their LGP

meaning in English. These are the fundamental difficulties in Chinese

medical education, learning what concepts really ARE in Chinese

medicine, rather than assuming that one knows what they are or

assuming that they correspond to pre-existing Western categories.

This is exactly why translation should be done with specificity rather

than simplification. Using simple and common English words gives the

reader the impression that they understand the concept, but their

assumption may not actually be correct (as in the example of tendon).

 

Poor Wiseman cannot win. If he chooses a term that has greater

accuracy but is not common, his words are called obscure. If he

chooses a term that is familiar, people say he is confusing the issue.

It doesn't matter what you call something if you understand what it

means in CM use. It is only a problem if one assumes that it means

the same thing as a familiar Western concept.

 

Incidentally, if gan mao is left as pinyin instead of translating it

into an LSP English term for use in Chinese medicine, it must be

pronounced VERY carefully. If you say it in the wrong tone, it means

" (to) F*ck cats. " Your doctor will be far too polite to ever say

anything, but your Chinese friends will tease you to no end.

 

Eric Brand

 

 

 

 

 

, " Par Scott " <parufus@e...>

wrote:

> I've always assumes that gan mao was the prodromal phase of a viral

disease,

> since they manifest the same and tend to get treated the same.

> -

> " " <@c...>

>

> Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:40 PM

> RE: Re: gan mao

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >> [taiqi@t...]

> >> Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:22 PM

> >>

> >> Re: gan mao

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I think common Cold/Gan Mao may be pretty severe but perhaps not

deadly

> >> flu.

> >> When I saw one of my colleagues sneezing I asked if he was " gan

mao? " but

> >> he just smiled

> >> and replied, " xiao feng " .

> >> doug

> >>

> > [Jason]

> > Doug,

> >

> > I think this kind of proves one of my points about terminology...

Gan mao,

> > for some Chinese authors and doctors, clearly includes influenza,

which

> > can

> > kill people. Some may, as you point out, consider it less severe, or

> > something different entirely. My point is, if it is clear that SOME

> > Chinese

> > use the term ganmao in a broader context, which from my

perspective is

> > true,

> > then does 'common cold' suit such a translation / definition?...

> >

> > -Jason

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> , " "

> >> <@c...>

> >> wrote:

> >> > I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our

profession /

> >> Wiseman

> >> > translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as

> >> common

> >> > cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language

teacher (no

> >> > medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and

she said

> >> common

> >> > cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe

> >> presentations

> >> > such as deadly flues and she said no.

> >> >

> >> > But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with

Flue,

> >> Upper

> >> > respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal

epidemic

> >> > pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted

patterns,

> >> making

> >> > it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it

completely

> >> depends

> >> > on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society

common

> >> cold

> >> > has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what

people on

> >> this

> >> > list think common cold means to them, and if they think that

this suits

> >> the

> >> > disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a

better

> >> > translation? In my translations I have just left the term in

pinyin

> >> because

> >> > it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the

Chinese

> >> use

> >> > the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the

Wiseman

> >> > terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe

that is

> >> just

> >> > me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no

response,

> >> > so

> >> I

> >> > ask you . Comments?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > -Jason

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > tel:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621>

> >> Add me

> >> > to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a

> >> signature

> >> > like this?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

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Eric,

 

I see all the points you made and pretty much agree.

** I do think that using pinyin is optimal,

** I adequately understand the different uses of 'common cold', historical

and modern/ in English and Chinese.

** I also agree that students should know what words mean in a Chinese

Medical context and not rely on English understanding (if it is clear in the

PD for example)

 

But the fact remains that students do not know what gan mao means in

this broader context. Every student I asked thought it could not be severe

or life-threatening, hell it is translated as common-cold. They pretty much

thought it is a wind-cold or wind-heat. Most thought that the flue, or

severe presentations would not be ganmao. I.e. gan mao can be a fulminantly

contagious rapidly spreading virus that causes death. {Note: Historical

usage is nice, but I am purely looking at things through a modern TCM

perspective where they acknowledge viruses - Which is common in the

literature}

 

I don't have the PD in front of me, but I think that is does not really show

the diversity of the use of the term. {could someone check it out?} If I

remember, it basically defines gan mao as; wind-cold (listing the symptoms)

then says it can also be wind-heat and that is about it... What about

warm-dryness, summerheat heat, exterior dampness patterns, or the above?...

Point being I have a whole book on GanMao with 100's of formulas and

patterns. For example check out 'Fulminant desertion of yang qi gan mao'

 

" chills and fever, perspiration, then: palps, chest oppression, urgent

respiration, copious perspiration, aversion to cold, rapid bound

intermittent pulse...lack of spirit, lying recumbent with legs drawn up...

cough and chest pain or fecal incontinence... " etc etc.

 

One may not consider this above pattern ganmao, or even a reference to the

influenza virus pattern as ganmao, but Modern Chinese will use ganmao in

this broader way. I still don't like 'common cold' as a translation. It

does not incorporate the extensive usage and deflates its meaning. It is a

colloquial usage that misses the medical boat, IMO...

 

Think about this.. Case study: the patient gets a common cold, and after 3

visits... he dies from this common cold. Yes one may argue it doesn't

matter what you call it, you can look it up. And this may be true in many

situations. But,

 

Point being: I ask everyone, from reading the PD as well as the word itself,

does one get a sense of the broadness of how these authors are using the

term ganmao?

 

Can Wiseman Win??? Really Wiseman can't lose because: anytime that a

translation of a term is not-liked or said to give a incorrect or vague

meaning (from the translated word(s) themselves), the response is : " Well

just look it up in the PD and you get the 'true' meaning " - Transparency is

forgone for precise dictionary meanings. But if the PD definition is vague

or incomplete (or even missing) the response is : " Well... the PD of course

can't have every detail. " . And If i.e. Another author comes up with his

term choice, which in his opinion seems more transparent, even if footnoted,

the response has been, why re-invent to wheel.. Wiseman has already done the

work... Win Win Win...

 

Bonus gan mao : Unified three yang Pattern

Would you consider this gan mao?

 

Alternating chills and fever, pain and fullness in the chest and ribs,

abdominal fullness, wry mouth and grim face, lumbar and spinal pain. Tongue

is thin yellow (may be thick yellow and dry in extreme situations).

Floating, wiry, large, and rapid.

 

Disclaimer : Just for clarity sake, before so some big brewahhahahha

starts... I use Wiseman's work daily. It is invaluable. I am not attacking

his whole work, methodology or whatever... I do, though, find times that I

(and my colleagues) do not agree with some of his choices. I am open either

way... I.e. I might end up using 'common cold' as a translation, but to

date it seems like an odd pick, and don't really understand it. Yes I am

challenging his pick of a term / definition - Or should I say just trying to

understand it through dialogue. Knowing that Nigel (and of course Eric) are

going to defend the term pick, which I am very interested in... I am also

interested in the non-translator's CHA reader's opinions. For example, what

does common cold or gan mao mean to you? Where did you acquire that

information, and does the translation of 'common cold' (with the PD

definition) seem to suit the contexts presented above. Comments...?

 

-

 

 

 

>

> smilinglotus [smilinglotus]

> Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:42 AM

>

> Re: gan mao

>

>

>

> Chinese medical theory did not historically recognize viruses and

> bacteria as causes of disease because they did not possess the

> technology to perceive them. The distinction between influenza

> viruses and coryza viruses is a distinction made by modern medicine.

> It is a distinction that is made in our culture as well as in modern

> Chinese culture, but it is not a distinction that was historically

> present. Wai gan (externally contracted) diseases include conditions

> with a wider range of severity than the colloquial use of common cold

> implies in English.

>

> Gan mao presentations generally correspond to common cold. Because the

> parameters of disease classification in Chinese medicine are not

> mutually exclusive, practitioners can use different diagnostic systems

> to describe the same illness. Thus, the same condition can be

> described through cold damage theory (shang han), warm disease theory

> (wen bing), or the disease classifications and patterns breakdowns

> found in texts organized by TCM diseases.

>

> The fact that the heading of gan mao as a disease category contains

> multiple patterns of varying symptoms and severities tells us that the

> concept of common cold in Chinese medicine is wider than that of

> Western medicine. Because of the inability to differentiate influenza

> from coryza viruses, or viruses from bacteria, the conditions were

> described by the prominence of symptoms, the severity, and the

> patterns. Most gan mao cases, are in fact, common colds, thus common

> cold is used as a translation for gan mao. However, when learning

> Chinese medical theory, one must understand that the Chinese concept

> of a common cold includes conditions that are classified as influenza

> in modern medicine.

>

> Generally, anything that is as severe as a life-threatening flu is

> going to be perceived and assessed through a variety of diagnostic

> parameters. It may be described using shang han theory or wen bing

> theory in addition to being classified as a case of external

> contraction with heat toxins (for example). None of these are

> mutually exclusive.

>

> Common cold is a phrase in English that is often used by the general

> public as a LGP (language for general purposes) term. Practitioners

> of Chinese medicine use the phrase common cold as an LSP (language for

> special purposes) term rather than an LGP term, because our definition

> of the word is specific to Chinese medical theory. As professionals,

> our definition of common cold reflects the traditional Chinese disease

> category, complete with its nebulous understanding (in the eyes of

> science) of causative factors and its wider range of possible severity

> and progression. Confusion between the traditional Chinese concept of

> common cold and the Western concept of common cold is thus caused by a

> failure to understand what the full range of common cold includes in

> Chinese medical theory vs. WM theory. Common cold means one thing

> when used as an LGP term in colloquial English, it means a different

> thing when used as an LSP term in CM.

>

> Because most people on this list are experienced practitioners, we

> have all learned that there is a different definition of common cold

> in Chinese medicine than there is in Western medicine. The assumption

> of students that there is a one-to-one correlation between Chinese

> medical concepts and Western concepts is the only source of confusion

> here. If students understand what common cold includes in Chinese

> medical terms, they will have no problem integrating the fact that it

> includes things that WM would classify as influenza. Any shortcomings

> in this understanding are due to a poor education in Chinese medical

> theory, not a poor translation of the term gan mao.

>

> Chinese medicine abounds with many concepts that are not identical to

> Western concepts. We cannot use pinyin to translate all of these

> terms, because there are too many such terms and too many homophones.

> The only solution is to use English words and to teach students

> that these words have a special meaning in the context of Chinese

> medicine. This is not a difficult thing for most students to

> grasp, so it is a good solution for the problem of how to transmit

> Chinese medical information (the ultimate goal of CM translation).

> Let's look a few examples:

>

> Jin1 is translated by Wiseman as " sinew(s), " but it is often

> translated as " tendon(s). " A tendon in the West is a type of tissue

> that joins the end of each muscle belly to the bone that it attaches

> to. In Chinese medicine, a jin1 is any type of ropy tissue that can

> be " plucked " (if you think back to your tui na classes)- plucking is a

> technique that is applied to jin1. So some things that are classified

> as jin1 in CM are actually muscle bellies in WM, such as the SCM or

> the upper part of the Trapezius. Because these things are definitely

> not tendons, " tendon " is a poor translation for jin1. Wiseman calls

> these " sinews " to reinforce the notion that they describe ropy flesh

> that includes, but is not limited to, tendons. An English term is

> preferable to pinyin here, because jin pronounced in the identical

> tone can also mean a unit of measurement (=600g everywhere but within

> the PRC, where it =500g), metal, or liquids. If we say that the liver

> nourishes the jin1, we cannot discern whether the liver nourishes

> metal, whether it nourishes liquids, or nourishes the sinews. So

> pinyin is out. Incidentally, metal and liquids are both LGP terms in

> normal English that have an LSP usage in Chinese medicine. No one on

> this list confuses the Chinese concept of metal (in the 5 phases) with

> the Western concept of metal, nor do we confuse the CM concept of

> liquids (jin as in jin-ye, again an LSP use) with the Western concept

> of liquids. Why should gan mao be any more difficult to learn as an

> LSP term than any of these others?

>

> No one is arguing that we translate metal or fluids any differently,

> even though they have an LSP use in CM that differs from their LGP

> meaning in English. These are the fundamental difficulties in Chinese

> medical education, learning what concepts really ARE in Chinese

> medicine, rather than assuming that one knows what they are or

> assuming that they correspond to pre-existing Western categories.

> This is exactly why translation should be done with specificity rather

> than simplification. Using simple and common English words gives the

> reader the impression that they understand the concept, but their

> assumption may not actually be correct (as in the example of tendon).

>

> Poor Wiseman cannot win. If he chooses a term that has greater

> accuracy but is not common, his words are called obscure. If he

> chooses a term that is familiar, people say he is confusing the issue.

> It doesn't matter what you call something if you understand what it

> means in CM use. It is only a problem if one assumes that it means

> the same thing as a familiar Western concept.

>

> Incidentally, if gan mao is left as pinyin instead of translating it

> into an LSP English term for use in Chinese medicine, it must be

> pronounced VERY carefully. If you say it in the wrong tone, it means

> " (to) F*ck cats. " Your doctor will be far too polite to ever say

> anything, but your Chinese friends will tease you to no end.

>

> Eric Brand

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...>

> wrote:

> > I've always assumes that gan mao was the prodromal phase of a viral

> disease,

> > since they manifest the same and tend to get treated the same.

> > -

> > " " <@c...>

> >

> > Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:40 PM

> > RE: Re: gan mao

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >> [taiqi@t...]

> > >> Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:22 PM

> > >>

> > >> Re: gan mao

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> I think common Cold/Gan Mao may be pretty severe but perhaps not

> deadly

> > >> flu.

> > >> When I saw one of my colleagues sneezing I asked if he was " gan

> mao? " but

> > >> he just smiled

> > >> and replied, " xiao feng " .

> > >> doug

> > >>

> > > [Jason]

> > > Doug,

> > >

> > > I think this kind of proves one of my points about terminology...

> Gan mao,

> > > for some Chinese authors and doctors, clearly includes influenza,

> which

> > > can

> > > kill people. Some may, as you point out, consider it less severe, or

> > > something different entirely. My point is, if it is clear that SOME

> > > Chinese

> > > use the term ganmao in a broader context, which from my

> perspective is

> > > true,

> > > then does 'common cold' suit such a translation / definition?...

> > >

> > > -Jason

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> , " "

> > >> <@c...>

> > >> wrote:

> > >> > I have been thinking about gan mao and the way that our

> profession /

> > >> Wiseman

> > >> > translates this term - 'Common Cold.'

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > A common (non-medical) Chinese dictionary will translate ganmao as

> > >> common

> > >> > cold or to catch a cold. When I asked my Chinese Language

> teacher (no

> > >> > medical training) what she thought the term ganmao meant and

> she said

> > >> common

> > >> > cold. I asked her if she thought that it encompassed severe

> > >> presentations

> > >> > such as deadly flues and she said no.

> > >> >

> > >> > But clearly the Chinese use the term GanMao to incorporate with

> Flue,

> > >> Upper

> > >> > respiratory tract infections, or a contraction of a seasonal

> epidemic

> > >> > pestilence pathogen, and all sorts of externally contracted

> patterns,

> > >> making

> > >> > it seem much broader than just 'common cold'. Granted it

> completely

> > >> depends

> > >> > on how one defines common cold. It seems that in our society

> common

> > >> cold

> > >> > has a more limited definition. Therefore I was wondering what

> people on

> > >> this

> > >> > list think common cold means to them, and if they think that

> this suits

> > >> the

> > >> > disease entity of Chinese 'GanMao' - IF not, does anyone have a

> better

> > >> > translation? In my translations I have just left the term in

> pinyin

> > >> because

> > >> > it seems to imply anything. It just seems that sometimes the

> Chinese

> > >> use

> > >> > the term in a broader sense than the Wiseman definition and the

> Wiseman

> > >> > terminology choice seems to imply a limited view - but maybe

> that is

> > >> just

> > >> > me... I have asked Nigel what he thinks and he has given no

> response,

> > >> > so

> > >> I

> > >> > ask you . Comments?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -Jason

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > tel:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> <https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30064918855 & v0=295000 & k0=1975548621>

> > >> Add me

> > >> > to your address book... <http://www.plaxo.com/signature> Want a

> > >> signature

> > >> > like this?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

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, " "

<@c...> wrote:

> Eric,

>

> I see all the points you made and pretty much agree.

> ** I do not think that using pinyin is optimal,

> ** I adequately understand the different uses of 'common cold',

historical

> and modern/ in English and Chinese.

> ** I also agree that students should know what words mean in a Chinese

> Medical context and not rely on English understanding (if it is

clear in the

> PD for example)

>

> But the fact remains that students do not know what gan mao means in

> this broader context.

 

 

Eric:

 

Naturally, you understand how wide the use of the phrase is because

you had an education that instilled in you the importance of

understanding the CM paradigm. You know how to look through different

lenses simultaneously. Not everyone has that advantage, nor does

everyone have the opportunity that you have to be able to read

Chinese. You are able to consult books that show a use of the term

gan mao employed in an even wider context than most of us are even

aware of. Your materials suggest that the whole spectrum of external

contraction can be classed under gan mao.

 

Because we are born in a fortunate time with such developed and

accessible knowledge, we have the advantage of being able to study

" pure " Chinese medical theory, " modern " Chinese medical theory, and

Western medicine. This allows for multiple viewpoints to overlap that

were not always historically available. We can thus use many

different lenses to look at the same problem, and select the viewpoint

that most adequately explains the condition and follow the prescribed

treatment. If influenza or meningitis hit it on the head, you can

follow the WM treatment for that, if shang han theory fits more

cleanly, you can apply that instead.

 

I think that wen bing, shang han, simple internal medicine texts, and

Harrison's all give us overlapping pictures to choose from for each

given scenario. This selection of which information to employ and

which school to choose from is a hallmark freedom of Chinese medicine.

Chinese medicine evolved through many different phases and each

generation did not discard old theories even as new, sometimes more

accurate, ones were developed. They were just all added on top of

each other and doctors to this day flip between schools of thought as

needed to explain a given condition. So our ability to use WM

superimposed on 2000 years of differing theories is a huge advantage.

 

Another problematic thing is that modern Chinese medicine has been

influenced so much by Western thought that it is difficult to be sure

of the origin of some ideas. The very idea of having organized

textbooks and didactic training was inspired by Western sciences and

Western-style learning to some degree. Words like gan mao are so

common in colloqial use that it is hard to even be sure if they are

terms that were historically used. There are people who would know

the answer to this, of course, but I do not.

 

It is possible that gan mao is a borrowed phrase from WM. WM in China

has borrowed a huge amount of words from Chinese medicine. Take, for

example, lin bing- gonorrhea. It is the same as lin zheng, or

strangury patterns = painful dribbling urination patterns, but with

the word disease instead of pattern. Surely some lin patterns seen by

Chinese medicine were gonorrhea, and surely some were not. With the

advantage we possess by having modern medicine, we could do a culture

and let that decide the appropriate first line of treatment.

Treatment aside, we can see that the Chinese WM term borrowed from the

indigenous understanding. We can still understand the WM use and the

CM use of the terms, and choose paradigms accordingly. Gan mao may

have been a term that moved the other direction, into Chinese

medicine. Witness the fact that formulas such as gan mao ling are

essentially allopathic rather than traditional in their use.

 

Basically, the more lens we have to look through and treatment options

to pursue it, the better off we are. Maybe we should just use gan mao

as a simple tool for knowing where in a given modern textbook to find

our external contraction differential diagnosis and treatment

therapies, and leave it at that.

 

I asked Nigel what he thought, and he replied with the following

thoughts below:

 

Sincerely,

Eric

 

 

I DON'T REALLY REGARD GAN MAO AS A CHINESE MEDICAL TERM. I AM NOT

SURE

WHEN IT APPEARED IN THE LANGUAGE, WHETHER IT CAME FROM A CHINESE

MEDICAL

USAGE, A WESTERN MEDICAL TRANSLATION THAT JUST BECAME POPULAR, OR

SIMPLY A

POPULAR TERM. SINCE IT IS NOT REALLY A TECHNICAL TERM IN MODERN TCM,

WE

MIGHT RENDER IT COLDS AND FLU, OR COLDS (AND FLU).

 

I THINK THE ENGLISH " COLD " IS THE COLLOQUIAL DISEASE NAME. IN GERMAN

IT IS

CALLED ERKAELTUNG (THE KAELT IS COGNATE WITH THE ENGLISH COLD). I

THINK

PHYSICIANS TURNED IT INTO COMMON COLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM INFLUENZA.

" COLD " MIGHT BE THE RIGHT TERM TO USE. HOWEVER, " COLD " SUGGESTS " Han "

IN

CHINESE. PARADOXICALLY, THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO THE IDEA OF " SHANG Han " .

 

I HAVE A FEELING THAT THE COLOQUIAL CHINESE TERM MAY HAVE BEEN " SHANG

FENG " , WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY GAN MAO UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF

WESTERN MEDICINE (WHERE WIND HAS NO MEANING).

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This is largely the result of over use of the formula 'gan mao ling' by

students and practitioners. Rather than 'doing the math' (i.e. pattern

differentiation) in choosing prescriptions, this formula is often given

to everyone who complains of colds or flu, without considering if it is

wind/cold, wind/heat/, wind/cold/damp, tai yang, tai yang/yang ming,

defense aspect, early stage qi aspect, or any other combination

pattern. Just another example of the over-simplication of Chinese

herbal medicine.

 

 

On Feb 6, 2005, at 8:33 AM, wrote:

 

>

>       But the fact remains that students do not know what gan mao

> means in

> this broader context.  Every student I asked thought it could not be

> severe

> or life-threatening, hell it is translated as common-cold. They

> pretty much

> thought it is a wind-cold or wind-heat.  Most thought that the flue,

> or

> severe presentations would not be ganmao.  I.e. gan mao can be a

> fulminantly

> contagious rapidly spreading virus that causes death.  {Note:

> Historical

> usage is nice, but I am purely looking at things through a modern TCM

> perspective where they acknowledge viruses - Which is common in the

> literature}

>

>

 

 

 

 

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To all,

 

 

 

Interesting discussion...

 

 

 

Just for clarity sake, my examples of this broader use of GanMao are from

pure CM sources, meaning there is no Western Medical diagnosis or

treatments.

 

 

 

Puzzling is that Nigel does not seem to feel that ganmao is a Chinese

medical term. Yet it is in the PD as a term, and it appears throughout CM

literature as one (IMO)... Therefore historically maybe ganmao meant

something else (purely colloquial), but it is clearly being used in the CM

literature and we should evaluate how to translate this. The term choice

should reflect the current usage, not some outdated historical or colloquial

one. Or maybe we should have multiple words for its different usages... I

ask everyone, including Eric, do you think 'common cold' does justice to

this modern more broad usage? Is this a case that common cold = ganmao fits

in many situations, but not all of them, and for those others maybe another

term should be used..? I also don't see how I looking at different sources

or lenses should change our pick of a term and definition... It seems like

the more broad one's reading is the more thorough and correct one's

understanding of a word or term is. If it does not match the current term

choice / definition, then I question it... We shouldn't reduce a definition

or term choice to the lowest common denominator... Furthermore, does it

matter were the term ganmao came from? Does it make it invalid if it came

from Western Medicine? IMO, I don't think so... Anyway... comments?

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

 

 

>

 

> smilinglotus [smilinglotus]

 

>

 

>

 

> Eric:

 

>

 

> Naturally, you understand how wide the use of the phrase is because

 

> you had an education that instilled in you the importance of

 

> understanding the CM paradigm. You know how to look through different

 

> lenses simultaneously. Not everyone has that advantage, nor does

 

> everyone have the opportunity that you have to be able to read

 

> Chinese. You are able to consult books that show a use of the term

 

> gan mao employed in an even wider context than most of us are even

 

> aware of. Your materials suggest that the whole spectrum of external

 

> contraction can be classed under gan mao.

 

>

 

> Because we are born in a fortunate time with such developed and

 

> accessible knowledge, we have the advantage of being able to study

 

> " pure " Chinese medical theory, " modern " Chinese medical theory, and

 

> Western medicine. This allows for multiple viewpoints to overlap that

 

> were not always historically available. We can thus use many

 

> different lenses to look at the same problem, and select the viewpoint

 

> that most adequately explains the condition and follow the prescribed

 

> treatment. If influenza or meningitis hit it on the head, you can

 

> follow the WM treatment for that, if shang han theory fits more

 

> cleanly, you can apply that instead.

 

>

 

> I think that wen bing, shang han, simple internal medicine texts, and

 

> Harrison's all give us overlapping pictures to choose from for each

 

> given scenario. This selection of which information to employ and

 

> which school to choose from is a hallmark freedom of Chinese medicine.

 

> Chinese medicine evolved through many different phases and each

 

> generation did not discard old theories even as new, sometimes more

 

> accurate, ones were developed. They were just all added on top of

 

> each other and doctors to this day flip between schools of thought as

 

> needed to explain a given condition. So our ability to use WM

 

> superimposed on 2000 years of differing theories is a huge advantage.

 

>

 

> Another problematic thing is that modern Chinese medicine has been

 

> influenced so much by Western thought that it is difficult to be sure

 

> of the origin of some ideas. The very idea of having organized

 

> textbooks and didactic training was inspired by Western sciences and

 

> Western-style learning to some degree. Words like gan mao are so

 

> common in colloqial use that it is hard to even be sure if they are

 

> terms that were historically used. There are people who would know

 

> the answer to this, of course, but I do not.

 

>

 

> It is possible that gan mao is a borrowed phrase from WM. WM in China

 

> has borrowed a huge amount of words from Chinese medicine. Take, for

 

> example, lin bing- gonorrhea. It is the same as lin zheng, or

 

> strangury patterns = painful dribbling urination patterns, but with

 

> the word disease instead of pattern. Surely some lin patterns seen by

 

> Chinese medicine were gonorrhea, and surely some were not. With the

 

> advantage we possess by having modern medicine, we could do a culture

 

> and let that decide the appropriate first line of treatment.

 

> Treatment aside, we can see that the Chinese WM term borrowed from the

 

> indigenous understanding. We can still understand the WM use and the

 

> CM use of the terms, and choose paradigms accordingly. Gan mao may

 

> have been a term that moved the other direction, into Chinese

 

> medicine. Witness the fact that formulas such as gan mao ling are

 

> essentially allopathic rather than traditional in their use.

 

>

 

> Basically, the more lens we have to look through and treatment options

 

> to pursue it, the better off we are. Maybe we should just use gan mao

 

> as a simple tool for knowing where in a given modern textbook to find

 

> our external contraction differential diagnosis and treatment

 

> therapies, and leave it at that.

 

>

 

> I asked Nigel what he thought, and he replied with the following

 

> thoughts below:

 

>

 

> Sincerely,

 

> Eric

 

>

 

>

 

> I DON'T REALLY REGARD GAN MAO AS A CHINESE MEDICAL TERM. I AM NOT

 

> SURE

 

> WHEN IT APPEARED IN THE LANGUAGE, WHETHER IT CAME FROM A CHINESE

 

> MEDICAL

 

> USAGE, A WESTERN MEDICAL TRANSLATION THAT JUST BECAME POPULAR, OR

 

> SIMPLY A

 

> POPULAR TERM. SINCE IT IS NOT REALLY A TECHNICAL TERM IN MODERN TCM,

 

> WE

 

> MIGHT RENDER IT COLDS AND FLU, OR COLDS (AND FLU).

 

>

 

> I THINK THE ENGLISH " COLD " IS THE COLLOQUIAL DISEASE NAME. IN GERMAN

 

> IT IS

 

> CALLED ERKAELTUNG (THE KAELT IS COGNATE WITH THE ENGLISH COLD). I

 

> THINK

 

> PHYSICIANS TURNED IT INTO COMMON COLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM INFLUENZA.

 

> " COLD " MIGHT BE THE RIGHT TERM TO USE. HOWEVER, " COLD " SUGGESTS " Han "

 

> IN

 

> CHINESE. PARADOXICALLY, THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO THE IDEA OF " SHANG Han " .

 

>

 

> I HAVE A FEELING THAT THE COLOQUIAL CHINESE TERM MAY HAVE BEEN " SHANG

 

> FENG " , WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY GAN MAO UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF

 

> WESTERN MEDICINE (WHERE WIND HAS NO MEANING).

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

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I

> ask everyone, including Eric, do you think 'common cold' does justice to

> this modern more broad usage?

 

 

You could always call it common cold in normal situations and

" uncommon cold " in unusual situations. The vast majority of gan mao

presentations are just common colds or minor flus, and I really don't

think that anyone is going to their doctor complaining of gan mao when

they have something really bad- they would add many clarifying words

to get their doctor's attention.

 

Common cold may not be a really old or a really well-defined term in

Chinese medicine, but it is definitely used frequently so it is a term

that we should all be familiar with. We should know that 95% of the

times it is used, the phrase is used to refer to things like

wind-heat, wind-dry, wind-cold, etc., but we should also be aware that

it can apparently be used in an all-encompassing way. It makes sense

to translate it as common cold when it implies common cold and to

explain it or translate it differently when it is talking about

life-threatening cases.

 

Materia medica texts often use the phrase gan mao in the

exterior-resolution chapter. I've never seen the phrase gan mao used

in that type of book to indicate the " uncommon colds " that you have

mentioned, because fulminant desertion and such are not usually

referred to as gan mao, they would be classed under other diseases

like yang collapse. Now, if you were writing the big book of

complications and progressions that originate with external

contraction, it would make more sense to clarify the broader use that

is implied by your source text.

 

I think that by and large, most Chinese people and most Chinese books

use gan mao more frequently in the narrower sense of acute,

short-lived, externally contracted mild illnesses (that can, of

course, transform and progress to severe conditions in very weak

patients or with very strong evils). It seems that whenever the

condition progresses beyond the point of gan mao, it is usually

clarified by other modifiers or other classifications. At the stage

of life-threatening danger, we might look at it through other disease

categories in a internal medicine text that were more specific to the

presentation at hand.

 

You should simply call it whatever you like and tell the reader that

in this book, gan mao is translated as " uncommon colds " or whatever

term you like. There are a number of words in Chinese that are

rendered differently in English when they mean different things. Just

translate it one way for one use and another way for another use.

Tell the reader the source term and briefly mention why you choose

your translation over the more limited " common cold " or " acute

exterior disorders, " as used by Will Maclean and Jane Lyttleton in

their clinical handbook of int'l medicine. Some of the stuff in the

book that you are using is no longer in the exterior, nor is it either

" common " or " cold. "

 

I agree that the PD definition could be wider and more explicit for

this term. But the PD simply reflects what the zhong yi da ci dian

and similar books say in their explanations, and, encyclopedic as it

is, it can't cover the topic to the depth that exists in all

scenarios. There are entire books written about external contraction,

entire books about astragalus, etc. Cheers to your efforts to make

more info known about externally contracted diseases!

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In , " "

<@c...> wrote:

> To all,

>

>

>

> Interesting discussion...

>

>

>

> Just for clarity sake, my examples of this broader use of GanMao are

from

> pure CM sources, meaning there is no Western Medical diagnosis or

> treatments.

>

>

>

> Puzzling is that Nigel does not seem to feel that ganmao is a Chinese

> medical term. Yet it is in the PD as a term, and it appears

throughout CM

> literature as one (IMO)... Therefore historically maybe ganmao meant

> something else (purely colloquial), but it is clearly being used in

the CM

> literature and we should evaluate how to translate this. The term

choice

> should reflect the current usage, not some outdated historical or

colloquial

> one. Or maybe we should have multiple words for its different

usages... I

> ask everyone, including Eric, do you think 'common cold' does justice to

> this modern more broad usage? Is this a case that common cold =

ganmao fits

> in many situations, but not all of them, and for those others maybe

another

> term should be used..? I also don't see how I looking at different

sources

> or lenses should change our pick of a term and definition... It

seems like

> the more broad one's reading is the more thorough and correct one's

> understanding of a word or term is. If it does not match the

current term

> choice / definition, then I question it... We shouldn't reduce a

definition

> or term choice to the lowest common denominator... Furthermore, does it

> matter were the term ganmao came from? Does it make it invalid if

it came

> from Western Medicine? IMO, I don't think so... Anyway... comments?

>

>

>

> -

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> > smilinglotus [smilinglotus]

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Eric:

>

> >

>

> > Naturally, you understand how wide the use of the phrase is because

>

> > you had an education that instilled in you the importance of

>

> > understanding the CM paradigm. You know how to look through different

>

> > lenses simultaneously. Not everyone has that advantage, nor does

>

> > everyone have the opportunity that you have to be able to read

>

> > Chinese. You are able to consult books that show a use of the term

>

> > gan mao employed in an even wider context than most of us are even

>

> > aware of. Your materials suggest that the whole spectrum of external

>

> > contraction can be classed under gan mao.

>

> >

>

> > Because we are born in a fortunate time with such developed and

>

> > accessible knowledge, we have the advantage of being able to study

>

> > " pure " Chinese medical theory, " modern " Chinese medical theory, and

>

> > Western medicine. This allows for multiple viewpoints to overlap that

>

> > were not always historically available. We can thus use many

>

> > different lenses to look at the same problem, and select the viewpoint

>

> > that most adequately explains the condition and follow the prescribed

>

> > treatment. If influenza or meningitis hit it on the head, you can

>

> > follow the WM treatment for that, if shang han theory fits more

>

> > cleanly, you can apply that instead.

>

> >

>

> > I think that wen bing, shang han, simple internal medicine texts, and

>

> > Harrison's all give us overlapping pictures to choose from for each

>

> > given scenario. This selection of which information to employ and

>

> > which school to choose from is a hallmark freedom of Chinese medicine.

>

> > Chinese medicine evolved through many different phases and each

>

> > generation did not discard old theories even as new, sometimes more

>

> > accurate, ones were developed. They were just all added on top of

>

> > each other and doctors to this day flip between schools of thought as

>

> > needed to explain a given condition. So our ability to use WM

>

> > superimposed on 2000 years of differing theories is a huge advantage.

>

> >

>

> > Another problematic thing is that modern Chinese medicine has been

>

> > influenced so much by Western thought that it is difficult to be sure

>

> > of the origin of some ideas. The very idea of having organized

>

> > textbooks and didactic training was inspired by Western sciences and

>

> > Western-style learning to some degree. Words like gan mao are so

>

> > common in colloqial use that it is hard to even be sure if they are

>

> > terms that were historically used. There are people who would know

>

> > the answer to this, of course, but I do not.

>

> >

>

> > It is possible that gan mao is a borrowed phrase from WM. WM in China

>

> > has borrowed a huge amount of words from Chinese medicine. Take, for

>

> > example, lin bing- gonorrhea. It is the same as lin zheng, or

>

> > strangury patterns = painful dribbling urination patterns, but with

>

> > the word disease instead of pattern. Surely some lin patterns seen by

>

> > Chinese medicine were gonorrhea, and surely some were not. With the

>

> > advantage we possess by having modern medicine, we could do a culture

>

> > and let that decide the appropriate first line of treatment.

>

> > Treatment aside, we can see that the Chinese WM term borrowed from the

>

> > indigenous understanding. We can still understand the WM use and the

>

> > CM use of the terms, and choose paradigms accordingly. Gan mao may

>

> > have been a term that moved the other direction, into Chinese

>

> > medicine. Witness the fact that formulas such as gan mao ling are

>

> > essentially allopathic rather than traditional in their use.

>

> >

>

> > Basically, the more lens we have to look through and treatment options

>

> > to pursue it, the better off we are. Maybe we should just use gan mao

>

> > as a simple tool for knowing where in a given modern textbook to find

>

> > our external contraction differential diagnosis and treatment

>

> > therapies, and leave it at that.

>

> >

>

> > I asked Nigel what he thought, and he replied with the following

>

> > thoughts below:

>

> >

>

> > Sincerely,

>

> > Eric

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I DON'T REALLY REGARD GAN MAO AS A CHINESE MEDICAL TERM. I

AM NOT

>

> > SURE

>

> > WHEN IT APPEARED IN THE LANGUAGE, WHETHER IT CAME FROM A CHINESE

>

> > MEDICAL

>

> > USAGE, A WESTERN MEDICAL TRANSLATION THAT JUST BECAME POPULAR, OR

>

> > SIMPLY A

>

> > POPULAR TERM. SINCE IT IS NOT REALLY A TECHNICAL TERM IN MODERN TCM,

>

> > WE

>

> > MIGHT RENDER IT COLDS AND FLU, OR COLDS (AND FLU).

>

> >

>

> > I THINK THE ENGLISH " COLD " IS THE COLLOQUIAL DISEASE NAME. IN GERMAN

>

> > IT IS

>

> > CALLED ERKAELTUNG (THE KAELT IS COGNATE WITH THE ENGLISH COLD). I

>

> > THINK

>

> > PHYSICIANS TURNED IT INTO COMMON COLD TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM

INFLUENZA.

>

> > " COLD " MIGHT BE THE RIGHT TERM TO USE. HOWEVER, " COLD " SUGGESTS " Han "

>

> > IN

>

> > CHINESE. PARADOXICALLY, THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO THE IDEA OF " SHANG

Han " .

>

> >

>

> > I HAVE A FEELING THAT THE COLOQUIAL CHINESE TERM MAY HAVE BEEN " SHANG

>

> > FENG " , WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY GAN MAO UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF

>

> > WESTERN MEDICINE (WHERE WIND HAS NO MEANING).

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

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Hi Folks:

 

Last night, I was thumbing through an index to a book on formulas

(ZhongYi Shi Da Lei Fang) & noticed two different entries in the list

of indications:

 

" pu3 tong1 gan3 mao4 "

&

" liu2 xing2 xing4 gan3 mao4 "

 

I don't have a reference to the first term in any of my

Chinese-English dictionaries, but it's the same putong as putonghua,

i.e. " common, universal " ; the 2nd term is found in 2 of my

dictionaries (_The Pinyin Chinese-English Dictionary_ and _A Pocket

Chinese-English Medical Dictionary_) as " flu; influenza; grip " .

 

I couldn't find another such specific differentiation in my other

formula discussion books, so I guess this would suggest a " borrowing "

of Western/English terminology.

 

--chris flanagan

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