SV: A difficult case study: My wife-seizures with Parkinsonism, installment #5

[Guest guest]

Hi,

if there is an excess, then it is always a deficiency.

Try to treat the deficiency, it usually works better.

 

Are

 

Are Simeon Thoresen

arethore <arethore

http://home.online.no/~arethore/

 

 

 

 

-----Opprinnelig melding-----

Fra: happyherbalist2001 [eddy]

Sendt: 12. februar 2005 16:49

Til:

Emne: Re: A difficult case study: My wife-seizures with

Parkinsonism, installment #5

 

 

 

 

Yes. I am saying it is a disorder of the Qi and Yang and Excess. The

Qi is not flowing smoothly and starts stops and stutters. The Yin is

there but does not distribute properly. Normal yin stagnates and

presents as the branch. The presentation has developed from her

overly strong character. Weaker people would have given in much

earlier and the pathogen would have penetrated deeper with possible

dire consequences. I think Yang Ming channel transmuted rather than

Shao yin/Jue Yin Kidney, Liver Yin deficiency. If it were a

batterfield the need would be more for bullets and bombs than food

and bandages. The exhasution is not a deficiency - open/purge the

channels. A matter of logistics not supplement.

 

I think you have been stimutanously treating both herbally. Since I

see this as a channel disorder Acupuncture and tui-na could focus on

opening the channels as an adjunct. especially the liver-GB channels

at 11-1 am. The stomach at 7-9 am.

 

Ed Kasper Santa Cruz, CA

 

 

, Yehuda L Frischman

<@j...> wrote:

>

> Dear Ed,

>

> In a sense, you are correct. She is a fighter, and would outlast me

> going 10 rounds any day. However, despite her naturally strong

> constitution, the literally thousands of seizures that she has

suffered

> have taken their toll, and their effect was even seen as early as 4

years

> after their onset, when she started to present with Parkinsonism, as

> manifesting her complete exhaustion. That is why it is essential to

> constantly tonify, at least to some degree, either qi or yin. The

good

> news, is that unlike many others with what appear to be chronic

> degenerative disorders, she is very responsive to herbs and dosage

> changes. But it's a game of precision, and when we are off, we

lose out

> to seizures. At times she is so dry and hot that she actually

presents

> with some of the manic signs of signs of Wen Bing Ying, including a

dry

> red tongue, but in her case, WITH a dry, actual BLACK tongue

coating!

> Other times she is do weak (particularly after seizures) that she

can't

> even stand up without assistance. As I mentioned, we do agree that

it is

> important to purge out the heat with Da Huang, but again, I have

seen how

> too much has weakened her and made her vulnerable to greater qi

xu. So,

> it's a very delicate balance.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Yehuda

>

> My thinking this is a yangming channel/now organ disorder (as

opposed to

> conventional Liver-Kidney Deficiency Dx). Maybe remove the Sheng Di

as

> well.

> or a formula along the lines of Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan adjusted for

> heat/dampness. Acupuncture (or Yin Tui-na)the yangming /

Pericardium (to

> accept the Excess St) along the Chinese clock. As this is (IMO) a

> yangming

> excess condition Da Hunag is the choice and more the better at

double to

> triple the amount below. I would consider going to the extreme to

break

> through. Tonify much latter. Treatment would cause a lot of

disruption

> but

> would be of short term. Depends upon the constitution and

fortitude. My

> thoughts are that your wife is very hardy and of strong

constitution. Of

> course this is just thinking outside the box to encourage ideas.

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Are,

 

I would respectfully agree with you to a point. Though, indeed, many

excess conditions have underlying deficiencies, and indeed, in my wife's

case there is both excess and deficiency, one of the principles that I

have always been taught by Dr. Zhang is to analytically determine which

is the root of the disorder, excess or deficiency. Though, of course,

logically we need to treat both the root as well as the current acute

symptoms, the underlying goal of treatment should be to retrace the steps

of the disorder, as it were, and work to eliminate the cause that brought

about the current pathological imbalance. In my wife's case, as Ed

intimated, it most certainly is excess, and so a major part of her

continually changing protocol is to reduce.

 

Sincerely,

 

Yehuda

 

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:27:57 -0800 " Are Thoresen " <arethore

writes:

>

>

> Hi,

> if there is an excess, then it is always a deficiency.

> Try to treat the deficiency, it usually works better.

>

> Are

>

> Are Simeon Thoresen

> arethore <arethore

> http://home.online.no/~arethore/

>

>

>

>

> -----Opprinnelig melding-----

> Fra: happyherbalist2001 [eddy]

> Sendt: 12. februar 2005 16:49

> Til:

> Emne: Re: A difficult case study: My wife-seizures with

> Parkinsonism, installment #5

>

>

>

>

> Yes. I am saying it is a disorder of the Qi and Yang and Excess. The

> Qi is not flowing smoothly and starts stops and stutters. The Yin is

> there but does not distribute properly. Normal yin stagnates and

> presents as the branch. The presentation has developed from her

> overly strong character. Weaker people would have given in much

> earlier and the pathogen would have penetrated deeper with possible

> dire consequences. I think Yang Ming channel transmuted rather than

> Shao yin/Jue Yin Kidney, Liver Yin deficiency. If it were a

> batterfield the need would be more for bullets and bombs than food

> and bandages. The exhasution is not a deficiency - open/purge the

> channels. A matter of logistics not supplement.

>

> I think you have been stimutanously treating both herbally. Since I

> see this as a channel disorder Acupuncture and tui-na could focus on

> opening the channels as an adjunct. especially the liver-GB channels

> at 11-1 am. The stomach at 7-9 am.

>

> Ed Kasper Santa Cruz, CA

>

>

> , Yehuda L Frischman

> <@j...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ed,

> >

> > In a sense, you are correct. She is a fighter, and would outlast

> me

> > going 10 rounds any day. However, despite her naturally strong

> > constitution, the literally thousands of seizures that she has

> suffered

> > have taken their toll, and their effect was even seen as early as

> 4

> years

> > after their onset, when she started to present with Parkinsonism,

> as

> > manifesting her complete exhaustion. That is why it is essential

> to

> > constantly tonify, at least to some degree, either qi or yin. The

> good

> > news, is that unlike many others with what appear to be chronic

> > degenerative disorders, she is very responsive to herbs and dosage

> > changes. But it's a game of precision, and when we are off, we

> lose out

> > to seizures. At times she is so dry and hot that she actually

> presents

> > with some of the manic signs of signs of Wen Bing Ying, including

> a

> dry

> > red tongue, but in her case, WITH a dry, actual BLACK tongue

> coating!

> > Other times she is do weak (particularly after seizures) that she

> can't

> > even stand up without assistance. As I mentioned, we do agree

> that

> it is

> > important to purge out the heat with Da Huang, but again, I have

> seen how

> > too much has weakened her and made her vulnerable to greater qi

> xu. So,

> > it's a very delicate balance.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Yehuda

> >

> > My thinking this is a yangming channel/now organ disorder (as

> opposed to

> > conventional Liver-Kidney Deficiency Dx). Maybe remove the Sheng

> Di

> as

> > well.

> > or a formula along the lines of Mu Xiang Bing Lang Wan adjusted

> for

> > heat/dampness. Acupuncture (or Yin Tui-na)the yangming /

> Pericardium (to

> > accept the Excess St) along the Chinese clock. As this is (IMO) a

> > yangming

> > excess condition Da Hunag is the choice and more the better at

> double to

> > triple the amount below. I would consider going to the extreme to

> break

> > through. Tonify much latter. Treatment would cause a lot of

> disruption

> > but

> > would be of short term. Depends upon the constitution and

> fortitude. My

> > thoughts are that your wife is very hardy and of strong

> constitution. Of

> > course this is just thinking outside the box to encourage ideas.

> >

> > Ed Kasper LAc. Santa Cruz, CA

> >

> >

> >