excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

[Guest guest]

Yehuda

Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition for

the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We need

both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high doses on

glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for the gut

and brain.

 

 

 

 

Dear Alon,

 

Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr. Russell

Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on excitotoxins

I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

http://www.mercola.com:

 

 

 

Is Glutamine

Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

 

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

 

Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our skeletal

muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past article,

Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine experts,

" After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose oral

glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

 

However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and author

of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote in to

me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

 

 

-------

-------

 

By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

 

Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I was

terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and that

he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned with

my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin and

was not converted into an excitotoxin.

 

Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do state

that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry textbook

emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from glutamine

in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the glutamate

is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

 

The Problem With Excitotoxins

 

 

The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential excitotoxin. I

say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell it is

harmless.

 

This is the major source of glutamate within the brain. Excitotoxins are

usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special amino

acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited, to the

point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of brain

synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein extract.

 

In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in the

brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large amounts of

glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of glutamine

and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine to

the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral encephalitis.

 

Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

 

 

Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their blood

and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia that

caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

protective.

 

Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is causing

the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would significantly

aggravate this damage.

 

Free Radicals in the Brain

 

 

Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase brain

levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain mitochondria to

produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins, such as

glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the reason for

glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is converted to

the excitotoxin--glutamate.

 

Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

 

 

Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple sclerosis

have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that converts

glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High levels of

glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these injured

areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity plays

a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

(oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

 

Glutamine and Pregnant Women

 

 

Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes through

the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to cause

significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead to

mental retardation.

 

When to Use Glutamine

 

 

The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair gastrointestinal

injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those with

a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even for

short-term use:

 

Stroke

Neurodegenerative disease

Pregnancy

Malignancy

Recent vaccinations

ADHD

Hypoglycemia

Autism

Multiple sclerosis

Other neurological disorders

 

Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia, even

more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia in

infants.

 

The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and esophagus are

stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be converted

first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

 

The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous athlete.

Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the brain. I

would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution readers to

avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

situations.

 

 

Yehuda Frischman

 

 

" When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was brought

before

you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

him, judge yourself. "

 

The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda thanks, does the link were you got the article has references?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Something here does not seem right. In my biochem text it is mentioned

(4th ed of Principles of Biochemistry by Lehninger) that pathways are

discussed for glutamine production from glutamate. Note the order of these

two as it does not appear in the reverse as mentioned below escept in

bacteria and plants. It also mentions on page 838 that glutamate synthetase

is not present in animals. If this is true than it would not be possible to

produce this unless it is though another set of reactions. How do you

trust?

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

>Yehuda L Frischman <

>

>

> excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:14:44 -0800

>

>

>Yehuda

>Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

>harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition for

>the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We need

>both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high doses on

>glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for the gut

>and brain.

>

>

>

>

>Dear Alon,

>

>Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr. Russell

>Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on excitotoxins

>I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

>http://www.mercola.com:

>

>

>

> Is Glutamine

>Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

>

>Dr. Mercola's Comment:

>

>Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our skeletal

>muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

>supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past article,

>Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine experts,

> " After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose oral

>glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

>

>However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and author

>of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote in to

>me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

>

>

>-------

>-------

>

>By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

>Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

>

>Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I was

>terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and that

>he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned with

>my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

>apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin and

>was not converted into an excitotoxin.

>

>Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do state

>that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

>Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry textbook

>emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from glutamine

>in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

>chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the glutamate

>is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

>glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

>

>The Problem With Excitotoxins

>

>

>The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

>glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential excitotoxin. I

>say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell it is

>harmless.

>

>This is the major source of glutamate within the brain. Excitotoxins are

>usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special amino

>acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited, to the

>point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of brain

>synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

>additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein extract.

>

>In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in the

>brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

>injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large amounts of

>glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of glutamine

>and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine to

>the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

>quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

>Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

>viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral encephalitis.

>

>Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

>

>

>Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their blood

>and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia that

>caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

>protective.

>

>Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is causing

>the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would significantly

>aggravate this damage.

>

>Free Radicals in the Brain

>

>

>Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

>Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

>associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

>recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase brain

>levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain mitochondria to

>produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins, such as

>glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the reason for

>glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is converted to

>the excitotoxin--glutamate.

>

>Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

>

>

>Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple sclerosis

>have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that converts

>glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High levels of

>glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these injured

>areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity plays

>a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

>(oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

>

>Glutamine and Pregnant Women

>

>

>Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes through

>the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

>producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

>development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to cause

>significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead to

>mental retardation.

>

>When to Use Glutamine

>

>

>The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair gastrointestinal

>injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those with

>a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even for

>short-term use:

>

>Stroke

>Neurodegenerative disease

>Pregnancy

>Malignancy

>Recent vaccinations

>ADHD

>Hypoglycemia

>Autism

>Multiple sclerosis

>Other neurological disorders

>

>Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia, even

>more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia in

>infants.

>

>The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

>challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and esophagus are

>stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be converted

>first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

>

>The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous athlete.

>Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

>consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the brain. I

>would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution readers to

>avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

>situations.

>

>

>Yehuda Frischman

>

>

> " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was brought

>before

>you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

>him, judge yourself. "

>

>The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mike,

 

I would suggest addressing your question directly to Dr. Blaylock at his

site: www.russellblaylockmd.com

 

 

 

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:37:24 +0000 " mike Bowser "

<naturaldoc1 writes:

>

> Something here does not seem right. In my biochem text it is

> mentioned

> (4th ed of Principles of Biochemistry by Lehninger) that pathways

> are

> discussed for glutamine production from glutamate. Note the order

> of these

> two as it does not appear in the reverse as mentioned below escept

> in

> bacteria and plants. It also mentions on page 838 that glutamate

> synthetase

> is not present in animals. If this is true than it would not be

> possible to

> produce this unless it is though another set of reactions. How do

> you

> trust?

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> >Yehuda L Frischman <

> >

> >

> > excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

> >Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:14:44 -0800

> >

> >

> >Yehuda

> >Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

> >harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition

> for

> >the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We

> need

> >both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high

> doses on

> >glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for

> the gut

> >and brain.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Dear Alon,

> >

> >Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr.

> Russell

> >Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on

> excitotoxins

> >I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

> >http://www.mercola.com:

> >

> >

> >

> > Is Glutamine

> >Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

> >

> >Dr. Mercola's Comment:

> >

> >Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our

> skeletal

> >muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

> >supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past

> article,

> >Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine

> experts,

> > " After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose

> oral

> >glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

> >

> >However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and

> author

> >of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote

> in to

> >me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

> >

> >

>

>------

-

> >-------

> >

> >By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

> >Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

> >

> >Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I

> was

> >terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and

> that

> >he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned

> with

> >my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

> >apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin

> and

> >was not converted into an excitotoxin.

> >

> >Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do

> state

> >that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

> >Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry

> textbook

> >emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from

> glutamine

> >in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

> >chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the

> glutamate

> >is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

> >glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

> >

> >The Problem With Excitotoxins

> >

> >

> >The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

> >glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential

> excitotoxin. I

> >say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell

> it is

> >harmless.

> >

> >This is the major source of glutamate within the brain.

> Excitotoxins are

> >usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special

> amino

> >acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited,

> to the

> >point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of

> brain

> >synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

> >additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein

> extract.

> >

> >In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in

> the

> >brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

> >injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large

> amounts of

> >glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of

> glutamine

> >and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine

> to

> >the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

> >quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

> >Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

> >viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral

> encephalitis.

> >

> >Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

> >

> >

> >Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their

> blood

> >and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia

> that

> >caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

> >protective.

> >

> >Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is

> causing

> >the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would

> significantly

> >aggravate this damage.

> >

> >Free Radicals in the Brain

> >

> >

> >Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

> >Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

> >associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

> >recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase

> brain

> >levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain

> mitochondria to

> >produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins,

> such as

> >glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the

> reason for

> >glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is

> converted to

> >the excitotoxin--glutamate.

> >

> >Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

> >

> >

> >Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple

> sclerosis

> >have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that

> converts

> >glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High

> levels of

> >glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these

> injured

> >areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity

> plays

> >a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

> >(oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

> >

> >Glutamine and Pregnant Women

> >

> >

> >Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes

> through

> >the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

> >producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

> >development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to

> cause

> >significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead

> to

> >mental retardation.

> >

> >When to Use Glutamine

> >

> >

> >The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair

> gastrointestinal

> >injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those

> with

> >a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even

> for

> >short-term use:

> >

> >Stroke

> >Neurodegenerative disease

> >Pregnancy

> >Malignancy

> >Recent vaccinations

> >ADHD

> >Hypoglycemia

> >Autism

> >Multiple sclerosis

> >Other neurological disorders

> >

> >Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia,

> even

> >more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia

> in

> >infants.

> >

> >The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

> >challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and

> esophagus are

> >stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be

> converted

> >first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

> >

> >The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous

> athlete.

> >Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

> >consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the

> brain. I

> >would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution

> readers to

> >avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

> >situations.

> >

> >

> >Yehuda Frischman

> >

> >

> > " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

> brought

> >before

> >you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

> >him, judge yourself. "

> >

> >The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:37 AM, mike Bowser wrote:

 

>

> Something here does not seem right. In my biochem text it is

> mentioned

> (4th ed of Principles of Biochemistry by Lehninger) that pathways are

> discussed for glutamine production from glutamate.

 

Yeah but that textbook is probably circa 1999?? so our bodies now work

differently in 2005 and the later textbooks reflect these physiological

changes. ;-) ;-)

 

No glutamine/glutamate is a cycle. One gets converted to the other and

vice versa. I don't think you can get glutamate across a membrane, so

glutamate is used intracellulary and glutamine extracellulary...

 

--george

 

>

>> Yehuda L Frischman <

>>

>>

>> excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

>> Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:14:44 -0800

>>

>>

>> Yehuda

>> Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

>> harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition for

>> the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We

>> need

>> both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high

>> doses on

>> glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for the

>> gut

>> and brain.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Dear Alon,

>>

>> Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr.

>> Russell

>> Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on

>> excitotoxins

>> I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

>> http://www.mercola.com:

>>

>>

>>

>> Is Glutamine

>> Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

>>

>> Dr. Mercola's Comment:

>>

>> Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our skeletal

>> muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

>> supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past

>> article,

>> Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine

>> experts,

>> " After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose oral

>> glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

>>

>> However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and

>> author

>> of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote in

>> to

>> me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

>>

>>

>> ----

>> ---

>> -------

>>

>> By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

>> Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

>>

>> Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I was

>> terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and

>> that

>> he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned

>> with

>> my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

>> apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin

>> and

>> was not converted into an excitotoxin.

>>

>> Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do state

>> that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

>> Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry

>> textbook

>> emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from

>> glutamine

>> in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

>> chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the

>> glutamate

>> is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

>> glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

>>

>> The Problem With Excitotoxins

>>

>>

>> The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

>> glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential excitotoxin.

>> I

>> say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell it

>> is

>> harmless.

>>

>> This is the major source of glutamate within the brain. Excitotoxins

>> are

>> usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special

>> amino

>> acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited, to

>> the

>> point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of

>> brain

>> synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

>> additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein

>> extract.

>>

>> In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in the

>> brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

>> injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large amounts

>> of

>> glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of

>> glutamine

>> and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine to

>> the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

>> quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

>> Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

>> viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral

>> encephalitis.

>>

>> Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

>>

>>

>> Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their

>> blood

>> and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia that

>> caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

>> protective.

>>

>> Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is

>> causing

>> the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would

>> significantly

>> aggravate this damage.

>>

>> Free Radicals in the Brain

>>

>>

>> Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

>> Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

>> associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

>> recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase

>> brain

>> levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain mitochondria

>> to

>> produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins,

>> such as

>> glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the reason

>> for

>> glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is converted

>> to

>> the excitotoxin--glutamate.

>>

>> Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

>>

>>

>> Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple

>> sclerosis

>> have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that

>> converts

>> glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High levels

>> of

>> glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these

>> injured

>> areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity

>> plays

>> a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

>> (oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

>>

>> Glutamine and Pregnant Women

>>

>>

>> Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes

>> through

>> the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

>> producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

>> development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to

>> cause

>> significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead to

>> mental retardation.

>>

>> When to Use Glutamine

>>

>>

>> The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair

>> gastrointestinal

>> injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those

>> with

>> a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even for

>> short-term use:

>>

>> Stroke

>> Neurodegenerative disease

>> Pregnancy

>> Malignancy

>> Recent vaccinations

>> ADHD

>> Hypoglycemia

>> Autism

>> Multiple sclerosis

>> Other neurological disorders

>>

>> Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia,

>> even

>> more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia in

>> infants.

>>

>> The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

>> challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and esophagus

>> are

>> stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be

>> converted

>> first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

>>

>> The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous athlete.

>> Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

>> consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the brain. I

>> would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution

>> readers to

>> avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

>> situations.

>>

>>

>> Yehuda Frischman

>>

>>

>> " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

>> brought

>> before

>> you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

>> him, judge yourself. "

>>

>> The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

This was not my question, just a notice of an apparent error. The info in

this case cannot be both ways as this is not possible. The text is one that

is in common usage at major universities and the latest edition just came

out in the last year or so. Since we seem to like to get into the nitty

gritty of it all on this site, I thought that I would bring this up and see

what others feel about it. Is this a translational issue or a sin of

omission? It is a very absolute thing for the book to state that glutamte

is not made by animals, only bacteria and plants. You decide.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

>Yehuda L Frischman <

>

>

>Re: excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:46:43 -0800

>

>

>Mike,

>

>I would suggest addressing your question directly to Dr. Blaylock at his

>site: www.russellblaylockmd.com

>

>

>

>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:37:24 +0000 " mike Bowser "

><naturaldoc1 writes:

> >

> > Something here does not seem right. In my biochem text it is

> > mentioned

> > (4th ed of Principles of Biochemistry by Lehninger) that pathways

> > are

> > discussed for glutamine production from glutamate. Note the order

> > of these

> > two as it does not appear in the reverse as mentioned below escept

> > in

> > bacteria and plants. It also mentions on page 838 that glutamate

> > synthetase

> > is not present in animals. If this is true than it would not be

> > possible to

> > produce this unless it is though another set of reactions. How do

> > you

> > trust?

> > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > >Yehuda L Frischman <

> > >

> > >

> > > excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

> > >Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:14:44 -0800

> > >

> > >

> > >Yehuda

> > >Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

> > >harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition

> > for

> > >the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We

> > need

> > >both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high

> > doses on

> > >glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for

> > the gut

> > >and brain.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Alon,

> > >

> > >Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr.

> > Russell

> > >Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on

> > excitotoxins

> > >I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

> > >http://www.mercola.com:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Is Glutamine

> > >Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

> > >

> > >Dr. Mercola's Comment:

> > >

> > >Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our

> > skeletal

> > >muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

> > >supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past

> > article,

> > >Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine

> > experts,

> > > " After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose

> > oral

> > >glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

> > >

> > >However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and

> > author

> > >of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote

> > in to

> > >me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >------

>-

> > >-------

> > >

> > >By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

> > >Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

> > >

> > >Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I

> > was

> > >terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and

> > that

> > >he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned

> > with

> > >my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

> > >apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin

> > and

> > >was not converted into an excitotoxin.

> > >

> > >Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do

> > state

> > >that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

> > >Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry

> > textbook

> > >emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from

> > glutamine

> > >in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

> > >chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the

> > glutamate

> > >is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

> > >glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

> > >

> > >The Problem With Excitotoxins

> > >

> > >

> > >The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

> > >glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential

> > excitotoxin. I

> > >say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell

> > it is

> > >harmless.

> > >

> > >This is the major source of glutamate within the brain.

> > Excitotoxins are

> > >usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special

> > amino

> > >acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited,

> > to the

> > >point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of

> > brain

> > >synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

> > >additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein

> > extract.

> > >

> > >In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in

> > the

> > >brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

> > >injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large

> > amounts of

> > >glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of

> > glutamine

> > >and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine

> > to

> > >the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

> > >quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

> > >Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

> > >viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral

> > encephalitis.

> > >

> > >Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

> > >

> > >

> > >Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their

> > blood

> > >and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia

> > that

> > >caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

> > >protective.

> > >

> > >Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is

> > causing

> > >the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would

> > significantly

> > >aggravate this damage.

> > >

> > >Free Radicals in the Brain

> > >

> > >

> > >Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

> > >Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

> > >associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

> > >recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase

> > brain

> > >levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain

> > mitochondria to

> > >produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins,

> > such as

> > >glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the

> > reason for

> > >glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is

> > converted to

> > >the excitotoxin--glutamate.

> > >

> > >Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

> > >

> > >

> > >Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple

> > sclerosis

> > >have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that

> > converts

> > >glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High

> > levels of

> > >glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these

> > injured

> > >areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity

> > plays

> > >a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

> > >(oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

> > >

> > >Glutamine and Pregnant Women

> > >

> > >

> > >Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes

> > through

> > >the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

> > >producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

> > >development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to

> > cause

> > >significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead

> > to

> > >mental retardation.

> > >

> > >When to Use Glutamine

> > >

> > >

> > >The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair

> > gastrointestinal

> > >injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those

> > with

> > >a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even

> > for

> > >short-term use:

> > >

> > >Stroke

> > >Neurodegenerative disease

> > >Pregnancy

> > >Malignancy

> > >Recent vaccinations

> > >ADHD

> > >Hypoglycemia

> > >Autism

> > >Multiple sclerosis

> > >Other neurological disorders

> > >

> > >Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia,

> > even

> > >more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia

> > in

> > >infants.

> > >

> > >The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

> > >challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and

> > esophagus are

> > >stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be

> > converted

> > >first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

> > >

> > >The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous

> > athlete.

> > >Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

> > >consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the

> > brain. I

> > >would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution

> > readers to

> > >avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

> > >situations.

> > >

> > >

> > >Yehuda Frischman

> > >

> > >

> > > " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

> > brought

> > >before

> > >you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

> > >him, judge yourself. "

> > >

> > >The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

This edition was published in 2005 and shows a very interesting relationship

between plants/bacteria that produce glutamate and animals that consume this

and change it into glutamine. Their is a cycle here. This reminds me of

glucose or oxygen and that plants produce it and we consume it. I guess we

have a need for them after all.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

>George Mandler <gmandler

>

>

>Re: excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 08:12:32 -0500

>

>

>

>On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:37 AM, mike Bowser wrote:

>

> >

> > Something here does not seem right. In my biochem text it is

> > mentioned

> > (4th ed of Principles of Biochemistry by Lehninger) that pathways are

> > discussed for glutamine production from glutamate.

>

>Yeah but that textbook is probably circa 1999?? so our bodies now work

>differently in 2005 and the later textbooks reflect these physiological

>changes. ;-) ;-)

>

>No glutamine/glutamate is a cycle. One gets converted to the other and

>vice versa. I don't think you can get glutamate across a membrane, so

>glutamate is used intracellulary and glutamine extracellulary...

>

>--george

>

> >

> >> Yehuda L Frischman <

> >>

> >>

> >> excitotoxins and glutamine vs glutamine

> >> Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:14:44 -0800

> >>

> >>

> >> Yehuda

> >> Are you saying that glutamate (i.e. the salt of glutamine) is more

> >> harmful than glutamine? Glutamine in the major source of nutrition for

> >> the gut and is a necessary excitatory amino acid for the brain. We

> >> need

> >> both excitatory and inhibitory systems and precursors. Very high

> >> doses on

> >> glutamine are often recommended in nutritional medicine both for the

> >> gut

> >> and brain.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Alon,

> >>

> >> Rather than answer your question personally, let me defer to Dr.

> >> Russell

> >> Blaylock, board certified neurosurgeon, whose major work on

> >> excitotoxins

> >> I mentioned in an earlier post and who is quoted on the site:

> >> http://www.mercola.com:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Is Glutamine

> >> Supplementation Helpful or Harmful?

> >>

> >> Dr. Mercola's Comment:

> >>

> >> Glutamine is an amino acid that makes up the majority of our skeletal

> >> muscle. There is some controversy over whether oral glutamine

> >> supplementation is toxic or helpful to healthy people. In a past

> >> article,

> >> Dr. Robert Crayhon expressed the view of many natural medicine

> >> experts,

> >> " After reviewing the literature, I am unconvinced that high-dose oral

> >> glutamine supplementation is toxic to neurons in healthy persons. "

> >>

> >> However, Dr. Russell Blaylock, a board-certified neurosurgeon and

> >> author

> >> of the highly recommended Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills wrote in

> >> to

> >> me with another viewpoint and his response is below.

> >>

> >>

> >> ----

> >> ---

> >> -------

> >>

> >> By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.

> >> Advanced Nutritional Concepts, LLC.

> >>

> >> Dr. Robert Crayhon posted comments on this site indicating that I was

> >> terribly mistaken in my caution concerning the use of glutamine and

> >> that

> >> he had consulted several " cell biologists " who were also concerned

> >> with

> >> my statements on glutamine safety. In fact it was stated that I

> >> apparently did not understand that glutamine was not an excitotoxin

> >> and

> >> was not converted into an excitotoxin.

> >>

> >> Of course, I never stated glutamine was an excitotoxin, but I do state

> >> that it is converted into the excitotoxin glutamate within neurons.

> >> Numerous recent studies as well as Siegel’s Basic Neurochemistry

> >> textbook

> >> emphatically state that the major source of glutamate is from

> >> glutamine

> >> in the brain. Normally, when the brain finishes using glutamate for

> >> chemical communication between brain cells at the synapse the

> >> glutamate

> >> is taken up by surrounding glial cells and changed by the enzyme

> >> glutamine synthease into glutamine, where it is stored.

> >>

> >> The Problem With Excitotoxins

> >>

> >>

> >> The glutamine is then transported to the neuron and by the enzyme

> >> glutaminase, it is converted to glutamate--the potential excitotoxin.

> >> I

> >> say potential because unless it accumulates outside the brain cell it

> >> is

> >> harmless.

> >>

> >> This is the major source of glutamate within the brain. Excitotoxins

> >> are

> >> usually amino acids, such as glutamate and aspartate. These special

> >> amino

> >> acids cause particular brain cells to become excessively excited, to

> >> the

> >> point they will quickly die. Excitotoxins can also cause a loss of

> >> brain

> >> synapses and connecting fibers. Food-borne excitotoxins include such

> >> additives as MSG, aspartame, hydrolyzed protein and soy protein

> >> extract.

> >>

> >> In two recent studies it was found that the amount of glutamine in the

> >> brain could predict the brain damage seen both in pediatric brain

> >> injuries and brain damage secondary to seizures. Adding large amounts

> >> of

> >> glutamine to the diet increases significantly brain levels of

> >> glutamine

> >> and, hence, glutamate. Another study found that by adding glutamine to

> >> the diet of animals exposed to another powerful excitotoxin called

> >> quinolinic acid, brain cell damage was increased significantly.

> >> Quinolinic acid is known to accumulate in the brain in most cases of

> >> viral brain infection as seen with HIV dementia and viral

> >> encephalitis.

> >>

> >> Glutamine and Liver Toxicity

> >>

> >>

> >> Individuals with liver toxicity tend to accumulate ammonia in their

> >> blood

> >> and brain. Until recently, it was assumed that it was the ammonia that

> >> caused liver disease-associated brain injury and that glutamine was

> >> protective.

> >>

> >> Newer studies indicate that actually it is the glutamine that is

> >> causing

> >> the brain’s injury. Increasing glutamine in the diet would

> >> significantly

> >> aggravate this damage.

> >>

> >> Free Radicals in the Brain

> >>

> >>

> >> Glutamine accumulation has also been found in Alzheimer’s disease,

> >> Huntington’s disease and high levels of brain glutamine have been

> >> associated with a worse prognosis in Lou Gehrig’s disease. Likewise,

> >> recent studies have shown that high brain glutamine levels increase

> >> brain

> >> levels of free radicals and impair the ability of brain mitochondria

> >> to

> >> produce energy. When the brain produces low energy, excitotoxins,

> >> such as

> >> glutamate, become even more toxic. It has been shown that the reason

> >> for

> >> glutamine toxicity under these conditions is because it is converted

> >> to

> >> the excitotoxin--glutamate.

> >>

> >> Glutamine and Multiple Sclerosis

> >>

> >>

> >> Of particular concern is the finding that people with multiple

> >> sclerosis

> >> have increased levels of the enzyme glutaminase (the enzyme that

> >> converts

> >> glutamine into glutamate) in areas of nerve fiber damage. High levels

> >> of

> >> glutamine in the diet would increase glutamate levels near these

> >> injured

> >> areas magnifying the damage. It has been shown that excitotoxicity

> >> plays

> >> a major role in multiple sclerosis by destroying the cells

> >> (oligodendrocytes) that produce myelin.

> >>

> >> Glutamine and Pregnant Women

> >>

> >>

> >> Another area of concern would be pregnant women. Glutamine passes

> >> through

> >> the placenta and may actually be concentrated in the baby’s blood,

> >> producing very high levels. Glutamate plays a major role in the

> >> development of the baby’s brain. Excess glutamate has been shown to

> >> cause

> >> significant impairment of brain development in babies and can lead to

> >> mental retardation.

> >>

> >> When to Use Glutamine

> >>

> >>

> >> The major use for high-dose glutamine would be to repair

> >> gastrointestinal

> >> injury. In such cases, I would recommend short-term use only. Those

> >> with

> >> a history of the following conditions should avoid glutamine, even for

> >> short-term use:

> >>

> >> Stroke

> >> Neurodegenerative disease

> >> Pregnancy

> >> Malignancy

> >> Recent vaccinations

> >> ADHD

> >> Hypoglycemia

> >> Autism

> >> Multiple sclerosis

> >> Other neurological disorders

> >>

> >> Glutamine has recently been shown to produce extreme hypoglycemia,

> >> even

> >> more so than leucine, which is known to produce fatal hypoglycemia in

> >> infants.

> >>

> >> The reason Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is not seen with glutamine

> >> challenge is that the glutamate receptors in the lungs and esophagus

> >> are

> >> stimulated by glutamate, not glutamine. The glutamine must be

> >> converted

> >> first and this occurs primarily in the brain.

> >>

> >> The only safe situation for glutamine use is in the vigorous athlete.

> >> Glutamine is used as a muscle fuel, so that vigorous exercise will

> >> consume most of the glutamine before it can accumulate in the brain. I

> >> would still avoid long-term use in high doses. I would caution

> >> readers to

> >> avoid excess glutamine, especially in the above named conditions and

> >> situations.

> >>

> >>

> >> Yehuda Frischman

> >>

> >>

> >> " When you see someone doing something wrong, realize that it was

> >> brought

> >> before

> >> you because you did something similar. Therefore, instead of judging

> >> him, judge yourself. "

> >>

> >> The Baal Shem Tov Hakodesh

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

also when i did pubmed search on glutamine and glutamate i did not find much

in terms of toxicity. When doing a google i found interesting article but

from venders that then try to sell you solutions. I will do more research on

this as it is very important.