Quadricep Fibrosis & Gallbladder Heat

[Guest guest]

Am looking for some formula advice please

 

 

39 year old male - highly athletic lifelong, has been suffering the

past 5 years with left knee pain which can be directly attributed

to significantly fibrotic quadricep muscles. MRI, and Xrays show

no joint abnormality or injury. He has undergone physical therapy,

massage, gua sha and vigorous stretching before trying acupuncture

and herbs.

 

Describes the pain as deep and pulling constantly and ocassionally

sharp. With exercise and stretching the pain improves, only to be

significantly worse for 2 days afterward. The muscles feel knotted

and " fibous " on palpation.

 

Other symptoms - high stress level - frustration work related, poor

sleep - invariably wakens around 4 am and is unable to get back to

sleep.

Fatigue particularly early evening.

Low libido, hair graying and loss

Diet is good, but uses alcohol to relax and cafeine to motivate

(trying to modify this behaviour)

Suffers from dry constipation and hemorrhoids - has noticeable bad

breath, but few signs of dampness in the tongue - which is dusky,

dry and slighly pale, but with frequent ulcers on the side of the

tongue and inner cheek.

 

The pulse seems deficient in the Qi aspect, and more choppy in the

GB, but with emptiness in the Liver

 

Diagnosis - Heat in the GB steaming fluids, Sp Xu causing poor fluid

metabolism failing to nourish muscles, Xue and Qi Stagnation.

 

 

Question - Base formula ideas? So far I am looking at

Huang Lian Wen Dan Tang

Shao Yao Gan Cao Tang

Modifications - Chuan Lian Zi, He Shou Wu, Mu Xiang, Tu Si Zi

 

Does anyone have other suggestions or experience

 

Also would you advise clearing the GB Heat first or taking a

combined approach

 

Patient is very willing to take herbs, modify diet and lifestyle.

 

Thanks

 

Kayte Halstead, Dipl OM

Acupuncture 4 Health

[Guest guest]

Kayte,

 

The question I'd be asking myself about the knee pain is whether its

wind damp cold impediment or wind damp heat impediment. That's where

I'd begin. Besides that, from what you've said, I think we can say

that the patient exhibits spleen vacuity with stomach heat and blood

stasis. If so, I can't believe there's also not liver depression,

especially given the self-medication. As for the GB heat, I don't see

how you got there. However, I can definitely say to treat the whole

condition at one time with any internally administered herbal medication.

 

Bob

 

, " acupuncture4health "

<acupuncture4health@r...> wrote:

>

> Am looking for some formula advice please

>

>

> 39 year old male - highly athletic lifelong, has been suffering the

> past 5 years with left knee pain which can be directly attributed

> to significantly fibrotic quadricep muscles. MRI, and Xrays show

> no joint abnormality or injury. He has undergone physical therapy,

> massage, gua sha and vigorous stretching before trying acupuncture

> and herbs.

>

> Describes the pain as deep and pulling constantly and ocassionally

> sharp. With exercise and stretching the pain improves, only to be

> significantly worse for 2 days afterward. The muscles feel knotted

> and " fibous " on palpation.

>

> Other symptoms - high stress level - frustration work related, poor

> sleep - invariably wakens around 4 am and is unable to get back to

> sleep.

> Fatigue particularly early evening.

> Low libido, hair graying and loss

> Diet is good, but uses alcohol to relax and cafeine to motivate

> (trying to modify this behaviour)

> Suffers from dry constipation and hemorrhoids - has noticeable bad

> breath, but few signs of dampness in the tongue - which is dusky,

> dry and slighly pale, but with frequent ulcers on the side of the

> tongue and inner cheek.

>

> The pulse seems deficient in the Qi aspect, and more choppy in the

> GB, but with emptiness in the Liver

>

> Diagnosis - Heat in the GB steaming fluids, Sp Xu causing poor fluid

> metabolism failing to nourish muscles, Xue and Qi Stagnation.

>

>

> Question - Base formula ideas? So far I am looking at

> Huang Lian Wen Dan Tang

> Shao Yao Gan Cao Tang

> Modifications - Chuan Lian Zi, He Shou Wu, Mu Xiang, Tu Si Zi

>

> Does anyone have other suggestions or experience

>

> Also would you advise clearing the GB Heat first or taking a

> combined approach

>

> Patient is very willing to take herbs, modify diet and lifestyle.

>

> Thanks

>

> Kayte Halstead, Dipl OM

> Acupuncture 4 Health

[Guest guest]

This may or may not be helpful but try looking up this site for some info on

stretching of channels to determine imbalances and also how to improve

athletic enhancement thru better and easier movements.

http://square.umin.ac.jp/mtnet/

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

> " acupuncture4health " <acupuncture4health

>

>

> Quadricep Fibrosis & Gallbladder Heat

>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:55:49 -0000

>

>

>Am looking for some formula advice please

>

>

>39 year old male - highly athletic lifelong, has been suffering the

>past 5 years with left knee pain which can be directly attributed

>to significantly fibrotic quadricep muscles. MRI, and Xrays show

>no joint abnormality or injury. He has undergone physical therapy,

>massage, gua sha and vigorous stretching before trying acupuncture

>and herbs.

>

>Describes the pain as deep and pulling constantly and ocassionally

>sharp. With exercise and stretching the pain improves, only to be

>significantly worse for 2 days afterward. The muscles feel knotted

>and " fibous " on palpation.

>

>Other symptoms - high stress level - frustration work related, poor

>sleep - invariably wakens around 4 am and is unable to get back to

>sleep.

>Fatigue particularly early evening.

>Low libido, hair graying and loss

>Diet is good, but uses alcohol to relax and cafeine to motivate

>(trying to modify this behaviour)

>Suffers from dry constipation and hemorrhoids - has noticeable bad

>breath, but few signs of dampness in the tongue - which is dusky,

>dry and slighly pale, but with frequent ulcers on the side of the

>tongue and inner cheek.

>

>The pulse seems deficient in the Qi aspect, and more choppy in the

>GB, but with emptiness in the Liver

>

>Diagnosis - Heat in the GB steaming fluids, Sp Xu causing poor fluid

>metabolism failing to nourish muscles, Xue and Qi Stagnation.

>

>

>Question - Base formula ideas? So far I am looking at

>Huang Lian Wen Dan Tang

>Shao Yao Gan Cao Tang

>Modifications - Chuan Lian Zi, He Shou Wu, Mu Xiang, Tu Si Zi

>

>Does anyone have other suggestions or experience

>

>Also would you advise clearing the GB Heat first or taking a

>combined approach

>

>Patient is very willing to take herbs, modify diet and lifestyle.

>

>Thanks

>

>Kayte Halstead, Dipl OM

>Acupuncture 4 Health

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bob

 

I would tend to WCD impediment, based on the preference for hot tubs

and hot compresse.

 

The liver depression is certainly a given - the GB heat I interpret

more from the choppy yet underlying empty pulse, tongue sores along

the edges, the emotional frustration and I suppose a general

inclination to interpret a dusky pale tongue more as Liver Xue Xu

with the heat in the Yang partner?

 

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Are you suggesting Jia Wei Xiao Yao Wan with modification from Shang

Zhong Xia Tong Yong Tong Feng Wan

 

Kayte

 

, " Bob Flaws "

<pemachophel2001> wrote:

>

> Kayte,

>

> The question I'd be asking myself about the knee pain is whether

its

> wind damp cold impediment or wind damp heat impediment. That's

where

> I'd begin. Besides that, from what you've said, I think we can say

> that the patient exhibits spleen vacuity with stomach heat and

blood

> stasis. If so, I can't believe there's also not liver depression,

> especially given the self-medication. As for the GB heat, I don't

see

> how you got there. However, I can definitely say to treat the whole

> condition at one time with any internally administered herbal

medication.

>

> Bob

>

> , " acupuncture4health "

> <acupuncture4health@r...> wrote:

> >

> > Am looking for some formula advice please

> >

> >

> > 39 year old male - highly athletic lifelong, has been suffering

the

> > past 5 years with left knee pain which can be directly

attributed

> > to significantly fibrotic quadricep muscles. MRI, and Xrays

show

> > no joint abnormality or injury. He has undergone physical

therapy,

> > massage, gua sha and vigorous stretching before trying

acupuncture

> > and herbs.

> >

> > Describes the pain as deep and pulling constantly and

ocassionally

> > sharp. With exercise and stretching the pain improves, only to

be

> > significantly worse for 2 days afterward. The muscles feel

knotted

> > and " fibous " on palpation.

> >

> > Other symptoms - high stress level - frustration work related,

poor

> > sleep - invariably wakens around 4 am and is unable to get back

to

> > sleep.

> > Fatigue particularly early evening.

> > Low libido, hair graying and loss

> > Diet is good, but uses alcohol to relax and cafeine to motivate

> > (trying to modify this behaviour)

> > Suffers from dry constipation and hemorrhoids - has noticeable

bad

> > breath, but few signs of dampness in the tongue - which is

dusky,

> > dry and slighly pale, but with frequent ulcers on the side of

the

> > tongue and inner cheek.

> >

> > The pulse seems deficient in the Qi aspect, and more choppy in

the

> > GB, but with emptiness in the Liver

> >

> > Diagnosis - Heat in the GB steaming fluids, Sp Xu causing poor

fluid

> > metabolism failing to nourish muscles, Xue and Qi Stagnation.

> >

> >

> > Question - Base formula ideas? So far I am looking at

> > Huang Lian Wen Dan Tang

> > Shao Yao Gan Cao Tang

> > Modifications - Chuan Lian Zi, He Shou Wu, Mu Xiang, Tu Si Zi

> >

> > Does anyone have other suggestions or experience

> >

> > Also would you advise clearing the GB Heat first or taking a

> > combined approach

> >

> > Patient is very willing to take herbs, modify diet and

lifestyle.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Kayte Halstead, Dipl OM

> > Acupuncture 4 Health

[Guest guest]

Kayte,

 

Interesting. I think you must be practicing a different style of

Chinese medicine.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

 

Bob

 

 

, " acupuncture4health "

<acupuncture4health@r...> wrote:

>

> Thanks Bob

>

> I would tend to WCD impediment, based on the preference for hot tubs

> and hot compresse.

>

> The liver depression is certainly a given - the GB heat I interpret

> more from the choppy yet underlying empty pulse, tongue sores along

> the edges, the emotional frustration and I suppose a general

> inclination to interpret a dusky pale tongue more as Liver Xue Xu

> with the heat in the Yang partner?

>

> Am I barking up the wrong tree?

>

> Are you suggesting Jia Wei Xiao Yao Wan with modification from Shang

> Zhong Xia Tong Yong Tong Feng Wan

>

> Kayte

>

> , " Bob Flaws "

> <pemachophel2001> wrote:

> >

> > Kayte,

> >

> > The question I'd be asking myself about the knee pain is whether

> its

> > wind damp cold impediment or wind damp heat impediment. That's

> where

> > I'd begin. Besides that, from what you've said, I think we can say

> > that the patient exhibits spleen vacuity with stomach heat and

> blood

> > stasis. If so, I can't believe there's also not liver depression,

> > especially given the self-medication. As for the GB heat, I don't

> see

> > how you got there. However, I can definitely say to treat the whole

> > condition at one time with any internally administered herbal

> medication.

> >

> > Bob

> >

> > , " acupuncture4health "

> > <acupuncture4health@r...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Am looking for some formula advice please

> > >

> > >

> > > 39 year old male - highly athletic lifelong, has been suffering

> the

> > > past 5 years with left knee pain which can be directly

> attributed

> > > to significantly fibrotic quadricep muscles. MRI, and Xrays

> show

> > > no joint abnormality or injury. He has undergone physical

> therapy,

> > > massage, gua sha and vigorous stretching before trying

> acupuncture

> > > and herbs.

> > >

> > > Describes the pain as deep and pulling constantly and

> ocassionally

> > > sharp. With exercise and stretching the pain improves, only to

> be

> > > significantly worse for 2 days afterward. The muscles feel

> knotted

> > > and " fibous " on palpation.

> > >

> > > Other symptoms - high stress level - frustration work related,

> poor

> > > sleep - invariably wakens around 4 am and is unable to get back

> to

> > > sleep.

> > > Fatigue particularly early evening.

> > > Low libido, hair graying and loss

> > > Diet is good, but uses alcohol to relax and cafeine to motivate

> > > (trying to modify this behaviour)

> > > Suffers from dry constipation and hemorrhoids - has noticeable

> bad

> > > breath, but few signs of dampness in the tongue - which is

> dusky,

> > > dry and slighly pale, but with frequent ulcers on the side of

> the

> > > tongue and inner cheek.

> > >

> > > The pulse seems deficient in the Qi aspect, and more choppy in

> the

> > > GB, but with emptiness in the Liver

> > >

> > > Diagnosis - Heat in the GB steaming fluids, Sp Xu causing poor

> fluid

> > > metabolism failing to nourish muscles, Xue and Qi Stagnation.

> > >

> > >

> > > Question - Base formula ideas? So far I am looking at

> > > Huang Lian Wen Dan Tang

> > > Shao Yao Gan Cao Tang

> > > Modifications - Chuan Lian Zi, He Shou Wu, Mu Xiang, Tu Si Zi

> > >

> > > Does anyone have other suggestions or experience

> > >

> > > Also would you advise clearing the GB Heat first or taking a

> > > combined approach

> > >

> > > Patient is very willing to take herbs, modify diet and

> lifestyle.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Kayte Halstead, Dipl OM

> > > Acupuncture 4 Health