the terrain and the disease

[Guest guest]

I wanted to clarify one point from my last post. The topic in mind was

chronic internal illnesses like lupus, not musculoskeletal disorders or

western medical syndromes such as PMS, FMS, CFIDS, IBS. These are

conditions in WM that are known only by their s/s complexes and are

believed to be caused by a variety of different disease processes.

They are not diseases themselves. As for the musculoskeletal

disorders, most TCM orthopedic specialists will already tell you that

while most of the conditions they may see present as bi syndromes, they

are rarely " cured " unless a very specific structural pathology is

corrected, such as spinal subluxation or nerve root compression. And

no amount of moving qi and blood with herbs will substitute for the

necessary physical manipulation and/or exercises in correcting the root

of the problem.

 

I have no doubt about the reality of both the western medical and TCM

syndromes as accurate descriptions of common s/s complexes presenting

in many of our patients. It just may be that in many such patients

there are a variety of causal factors at play that cannot be adequately

described by TCM and thus not adequately treated. If microorganisms,

heavy metal, allergies, drug toxicity and genetic defects are the

primary causes of much illness, then merely addressing the syndromes

that arise as a result of these factors will only have temporary

effects (no matter how precise one's diagnosis is). Serious chronic

illnesses may typically involve such factors while the more mundane

sufferings of daily life (headaches, menstrual pain, stomach ache,

fatigue, insomnia) are probably just a result of the seven affects and

diet/exercise. In addition, the more serious illnesses may be affected

in their course and severity by the more standard disease causes. But

the fact is that many chronic illnesses can often be eliminated

practically overnight by identifying a key causal factor such as

candida, for example.

 

I think one of the main benefits of addressing syndromes with herbs and

acupuncture is they are noniatrogenic if used correctly. Thus the

patient is rarely harmed in the process of being helped. Thus, a

person who uses TCM to handle the sufferings of daily life would likely

have a better quality of life. When feeling mildly ill, they would

avoid using toxic drugs that damaged the body and hastened the decline

of health. And the onset of any serious illnesses would be greatly

delayed or lessened in their severity. And the symptoms of such

illnesses could be treated without worsening the patient even more. So

the terrain most certainly affects the disease, but the terrain and the

disease may be two different things that interact, rather than one

wholly determining the other as some might have it. Even if the

physiology of TCM provides a sufficiently accurate holistic description

of the bodily terrain, that does not mean that description is

sufficient to explain all diseases.

 

If the analysis of TCM goes only to a certain level, then it can not

see beyond that. We can see the terrain is disrupted and we have our

textbook causes and we link together our long complex chains of

mutually engendering pathomechanisms to explain it all. But what if a

virus or a drug suddenly caused the disruption of the terrain rather

than it being disrupted first by diet or emotions. We need to let go

of the idea that pathology can only take root in those who are first

weakened by poor lifestyle. In fact, TCM recognizes that many

pathogens can affect even the healthiest persons. I have had many

patients who have been quite scrupulous about diet and everything else

for years and still suffer. Herbs never get to the root, nor does

acupuncture or psychology. Something else is clearly going on in these

cases. It often turns out to be something very specific, like candida

or food allergies or drug use.

 

I think the reason that it may not be accurate to try and differentiate

western diseases according to TCM is because we are comparing apples

and oranges and confusing cause and effect, terrain and disease. The

chinese certainly had diseases as well as patterns in their int med

texts. But most of the diseases were actually either chief complaints

like cough or diseases that were understood by their presentations

rather than their pathophysiology. So concretions presented a certain

way in all cases that allowed them to be labeled as such, but the

disease name did not explain the pathophysiology in most cases (see the

disease list in Deng). Pathophysiology was the domain of patterns.

But the diseases were recognized as having a distinct existence

separate from patterns. So perhaps it was rather that the

pathophysiology of the disease could not be determined according to TCM

logic so only the syndrome could be treated. In some cases, the causes

were easily eliminated, such as poor diet. In many others, the doctors

no doubt failed. We know there were a lot of doctors in ancient China

who did not serve their patients well. We know this because many of

those who wrote books mention this over and over again. The assumption

is that they were bad doctors, but the reality is more likely that

there were many things they could not treat because the cause were

actually beyond their medieval comprehension.

 

Those of you who take all of this on faith are probably horrified by

what can only be called a heresy, right. :-) I am likewise horrified

that so much of this goes uncritically examined.

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You raise some issues that are more complex in my mind than what meets

the eye. I cannot disagree with your thought about diseases that were

beyond comprehension of ancient Chinese doctors, but there are disease

states that are still beyond the comprehension of modern Western

doctors, and conditions that Chinese medicine sees more clearly than

biomedicine. This is why we got interested in Chinese medicine in the

first place.

 

Another point to remember. . . .we may be struggling to get a foothold

in the modern world next to the vast behemoth of modern medicine, but

all that may change very quickly. Clearly, the era of cheap oil and

gasoline is about to end, and modern medicine depends tremendously on

supplies of cheap fuel. The relatively low-tech diagnostics and tools

of Chinese medicine may become a greater asset in years to come.

 

 

On Mar 26, 2005, at 11:15 PM, wrote:

 

> ated, such as poor diet. In many others, the doctors

> no doubt failed. We know there were a lot of doctors in ancient China

> who did not serve their patients well. We know this because many of

> those who wrote books mention this over and over again. The assumption

> is that they were bad doctors, but the reality is more likely that

> there were many things they could not treat because the cause were

> actually beyond their medieval comprehension.

[Guest guest]

by a variety of different disease processes.

>>> some are not diseases and these are were we have a lot to offer with

CM.Not all syndromes of symptoms sign complexes are believed to be caused by

diseases. Some are functional disorders and we have a lot to offer for these

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

If the analysis of TCM goes only to a certain level, then it can not

see beyond that. We can see the terrain is disrupted and we have our

textbook causes and we link together our long complex chains of

mutually engendering pathomechanisms to explain it all.

>>>What i call self reinforcing thinking and why we need to use modern

scientific processes