the revolution is already here (I think you are waiting for Godot)

[Guest guest]

a laboratory revolution without sustainable results in none at all.

Again you are viewing the mechanical model and it just won't work! But

then again, our discussion is only theoretical until you can show me

sustainable results, and so all we are left with is a discussion on

belief and passion, no?

 

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:01:07 -0800 < writes:

>

> The revolution is already here. do a google scholar and news search

>

> and you will see that pilot studies have already successfully

> treated

> heart damage from heart attack, parkinsons, type 1 diabetes and

> spinal

> cord damage using stem cell or cellular implant therapies. But it

> really makes no sense to argue.

 

 

 

my very point.

 

 

I think the advances will come over

>

> the next ten years, not the next 100. they may not come here first

> due

> to evangelical opposition. but they will happen in Asia and Europe.

>

> And them America will get on the bandwagon and lead the way. So we

> will get to see in a short while how this all plays out.

 

 

please forgive my disrespect, but you are displaying the same lack

of respect, the same passion and the same blind faith in your belief as

you accuse others of doing in beliefs different than yours. (Please

refer to Jean Paul Sartre's " Waiting for Godot " -he never came, did he?)

 

 

 

 

> Regardless, I still don't think TCM has the answers for chronic

> immune

> disorders, heart disease, cancer, diabetes and alcoholism.

 

 

Agreed, but your mindset is that of a " magic bullet " mentality. Consider,

instead that by removing cumulative loads on the patient, and using

multiple disciplines to balance the many aspects of the dysharmony, some

Chinese, and some other methods, that chronic illness can be reversed.

 

 

 

We know

> there is strong genetic component to many of these illnesses (other

> than the obvious lifestyle cancers like lung and colon). Even if

> one

> decreases the risks of chronic disease by good diet and herbs and

> supplements, one will likely still die of heart failure or cancer -

> what else is there? If you go the TCM route, you accept death and

> decline as inevitable. I was drawn into this field by my interest

> in

> Daoist longevity techniques. A true daoist of this persuasion will

> use

> whatever science provides in this quest. I don't believe in an

> afterlife or reincarnation, so its not really OK with me to just

> have a

> peaceful slide into death. The daoists invented scientific

> observation

> and stem cell therapy is the logical extension of their millennia

> long

> exploration into the nature of life. It is an external alchemy of

> the

> most refined type.

>

> External alchemy, or the use of certain refined substances to

> prolong

> physical life, is the basis of the chinese knowledge of tonic herbs.

>

> While external alchemy was rejected by mainstream society and

> internal

> alchemists alike, this is largely due to its horrible failures in

> ancient times, such as mercury poisoning. It thus became the

> defacto

> wisdom that only internal alchemy or cultivating the mind could lead

> to

> a form of spiritual immortality, though not physical. This perhaps

> offered some solace, but is hardly proof of the thesis. There were

> many things the ancients could not do that we can. They also

> assumed

> invasive surgery could not be performed without the patient dying.

> That is no longer the case. So we shall see.

 

 

I can't comment on daoism, but I will say this, DNA can be changed, and

though there indeed may be genetic predisposition toward certain

diseases,one is never absolutely doomed to failure. Furthermore, there

is more to Chinese medicine then just herbs and acupuncture, and there is

more to real non-allopathic medicine then Chinese medicine. We need to

be open,flexible and adaptable if we are to be agents of healing .

 

Yehuda

[Guest guest]

, Yehuda L Frischman

<@j...> wrote:

> a laboratory revolution without sustainable results in none at

all.

> Again you are viewing the mechanical model and it just won't work! But

> then again, our discussion is only theoretical until you can show me

> sustainable results, and so all we are left with is a discussion on

> belief and passion, no?

 

your words are opinions. mine refer to lab research. what are you

talking about? There are controlled studies showing success in many

areas of adult stem cell therapy. Its up to each of you to verify my

words or not, but don't let them merely be dismissed by someone who

has clearly missed my point and not explored the data closely.

 

[Guest guest]

I thought this forum was about Chinese medicine not western medicine. Later

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> " " <

>

>

>Re: the revolution is already here (I think you are waiting

>for Godot)

>Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:20:10 -0000

>

>

> , Yehuda L Frischman

><@j...> wrote:

> > a laboratory revolution without sustainable results in none at

>all.

> > Again you are viewing the mechanical model and it just won't work! But

> > then again, our discussion is only theoretical until you can show me

> > sustainable results, and so all we are left with is a discussion on

> > belief and passion, no?

>

>your words are opinions. mine refer to lab research. what are you

>talking about? There are controlled studies showing success in many

>areas of adult stem cell therapy. Its up to each of you to verify my

>words or not, but don't let them merely be dismissed by someone who

>has clearly missed my point and not explored the data closely.

>

>Todd

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

you are completely missing my point. Time and time again,

research will show the efficacy of a therapy only later to have it

disproved or flawed. All of the prohibitively expensive research remains

purely theoretical (no matter how successful in a lab setting) until, for

example, after a stem cell implant a patient remains symptom free after,

let's say 5 or ten years. Controlled studies are never conclusive without

real life experience. So I continue to wait for " cures " , which I contend

will never come using your model. Our disagreement needs to understood

on two levels: first, concerning the " facts on the ground " meaning what

determines success: double-blind clinical studies, or the next step, real

life experience. The second is again, the old debate between Pasteur and

Bechamp.

 

Yehuda

 

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 18:20:10 -0000 " "

< writes:

>

>

> , Yehuda L Frischman

> <@j...> wrote:

> > a laboratory revolution without sustainable results in none

> at

> all.

> > Again you are viewing the mechanical model and it just won't

> work! But

> > then again, our discussion is only theoretical until you can show

> me

> > sustainable results, and so all we are left with is a discussion

> on

> > belief and passion, no?

>

> your words are opinions. mine refer to lab research. what are you

> talking about? There are controlled studies showing success in many

> areas of adult stem cell therapy. Its up to each of you to verify my

> words or not, but don't let them merely be dismissed by someone who

> has clearly missed my point and not explored the data closely.

>

 

>

>

>

>

>

>