Guest guest Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 A heartfelt thanks to all of you who replied to my post. There were so many intelligent assertions and subtleties I hadn't yet considered. I am going through each post to determine which will fit. And its been so interesting receiving your diiferent TCM perspectives. I will keep you posted, thank you once again as Attillo would say, kindest regards to all of you, Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2005 Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 Dear Ann, Just a couple of quick and perhaps different ideas to consider. Of course, it goes without saying, that you want to establish and treat the appropriate constitutional predisposition, but consider well that this itching with hives or urticaria, could be the result of any of the following etiologies: wind-cold, wind-heat, wind-damp, spleen & /or stomach dysfunction, blood heat, blood stasis, blood deficiency, disharmony between the Ren & Chong channels, emotional disturbance or a natural intolerance as manifested by allergy to either food, drugs, or beverages, or a combination of any of the above. Don't downplay the emotional connection. Using herbs such as long gu, ye jiao teng, zhen zhu, bai ji li, yuan zhi, he huan pi, have the advantage of calming the liver or the heart, and also healing the skin. Even consider using Chai hu or suan zao ren, if the root is from the liver. Ask your patient, also, if she notices that her symptoms get worse when she is pre-menstrual or if she is under more stress. When all the obvious approaches don't work, think outside the box. BTW, herbpharm, out of Oregon, makes " Ed's herbal salve " a wonderfully helpful ointment which should help with topical relief. Much success, Yehuda On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:45:16 -0700 Ann <dr.annzee writes: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I'm at my wits end with this case and need some help. For the past 4 > months > I have been treating a 30 yr old woman who was initially taking 3 > different > types of anti hist meds plus a general anti hist called Aerius. I've > managed > to get her down to just the Aerius only when the hives onset. She > used to > suffer quite terribly everyday, hives on her chest, always on her > wrists and > upper back. > She has Spleen xu, wiry pulse, softer stools, red tongue w/minimal > coat. > When I first saw her I put her on Xiao Feng San-that one did the > most good > BUT her hives still occured, so I put her on Dang Gui Si Ni Tang to > nourish > her blood and Spleen. Sill hives, so my last round of herbs are Xiao > Chai Hu > Tang and Jade screen and xanthium formula(just for histamine > control). > W/these formulas you'll see from the attached e-mail, her hives are > now > presenting quite differently................. > Does anyone out there have any suggestions, PLEASE HELP > see her attached e-mail below; > > > thanks for any suggestions, Ann > > > I have been managing to get the herbs down without too much gagging, > as > prescribed. Since I picked them up, I have taken them and about 8 of > the > antihistamine ones, but no Aerius. Today, I got small hives but kept > ignoring them, they would go away and come back somewhere else, on > my wrist, > hands, palms, or on the inside of my elbow. Well I guess the hurry > to my > massage and the rub down combined were the straw that broke the > camel's > back. I hived all over my back and shoulders, particularly on my > right side > (My massage therapist asked me to mention that, as she thought it > was > peculiar that most were on that side, only a few scattered on the > left). > > My lips were a bit swollen at the top this morning, but I popped two > of > those antihistamines and thought I was safe. After the massage and > keeping > my head face down in that little hole, my eyes were swollen and my > lips were > a plumped as well. I went home and took a whole Aerius and hoped > that would > be the end of it. I'm sitting here with my swollen eyes, and my > boyfriend > has > benevolently agreed to pick me up after his soccer practice instead > of > making his deformed girlfriend champion him from the > sidelines...thank God > for small mercies... > > All I can say is that the hives pop up and go away small at first > then more > each time, finally I get tired of fighting it and it goes crazy > and...well > you know what happens. It's like a tidal wave, according to my > sister.. " I've > never seen someone get hives on the bags under their eyes before, > you look > like someone beat you up " . I'm hoping you have some suggestions, or > maybe > I'm just a nutcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 " Ed's herbal salve " >>>>>Yehuda whats in the salve Alon Yehuda L Frischman < wrote: Dear Ann, Just a couple of quick and perhaps different ideas to consider. Of course, it goes without saying, that you want to establish and treat the appropriate constitutional predisposition, but consider well that this itching with hives or urticaria, could be the result of any of the following etiologies: wind-cold, wind-heat, wind-damp, spleen & /or stomach dysfunction, blood heat, blood stasis, blood deficiency, disharmony between the Ren & Chong channels, emotional disturbance or a natural intolerance as manifested by allergy to either food, drugs, or beverages, or a combination of any of the above. Don't downplay the emotional connection. Using herbs such as long gu, ye jiao teng, zhen zhu, bai ji li, yuan zhi, he huan pi, have the advantage of calming the liver or the heart, and also healing the skin. Even consider using Chai hu or suan zao ren, if the root is from the liver. Ask your patient, also, if she notices that her symptoms get worse when she is pre-menstrual or if she is under more stress. When all the obvious approaches don't work, think outside the box. BTW, herbpharm, out of Oregon, makes " Ed's herbal salve " a wonderfully helpful ointment which should help with topical relief. Much success, Yehuda On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:45:16 -0700 Ann <dr.annzee writes: > > > > Hi everyone, > > I'm at my wits end with this case and need some help. For the past 4 > months > I have been treating a 30 yr old woman who was initially taking 3 > different > types of anti hist meds plus a general anti hist called Aerius. I've > managed > to get her down to just the Aerius only when the hives onset. She > used to > suffer quite terribly everyday, hives on her chest, always on her > wrists and > upper back. > She has Spleen xu, wiry pulse, softer stools, red tongue w/minimal > coat. > When I first saw her I put her on Xiao Feng San-that one did the > most good > BUT her hives still occured, so I put her on Dang Gui Si Ni Tang to > nourish > her blood and Spleen. Sill hives, so my last round of herbs are Xiao > Chai Hu > Tang and Jade screen and xanthium formula(just for histamine > control). > W/these formulas you'll see from the attached e-mail, her hives are > now > presenting quite differently................. > Does anyone out there have any suggestions, PLEASE HELP > see her attached e-mail below; > > > thanks for any suggestions, Ann > > > I have been managing to get the herbs down without too much gagging, > as > prescribed. Since I picked them up, I have taken them and about 8 of > the > antihistamine ones, but no Aerius. Today, I got small hives but kept > ignoring them, they would go away and come back somewhere else, on > my wrist, > hands, palms, or on the inside of my elbow. Well I guess the hurry > to my > massage and the rub down combined were the straw that broke the > camel's > back. I hived all over my back and shoulders, particularly on my > right side > (My massage therapist asked me to mention that, as she thought it > was > peculiar that most were on that side, only a few scattered on the > left). > > My lips were a bit swollen at the top this morning, but I popped two > of > those antihistamines and thought I was safe. After the massage and > keeping > my head face down in that little hole, my eyes were swollen and my > lips were > a plumped as well. I went home and took a whole Aerius and hoped > that would > be the end of it. I'm sitting here with my swollen eyes, and my > boyfriend > has > benevolently agreed to pick me up after his soccer practice instead > of > making his deformed girlfriend champion him from the > sidelines...thank God > for small mercies... > > All I can say is that the hives pop up and go away small at first > then more > each time, finally I get tired of fighting it and it goes crazy > and...well > you know what happens. It's like a tidal wave, according to my > sister.. " I've > never seen someone get hives on the bags under their eyes before, > you look > like someone beat you up " . I'm hoping you have some suggestions, or > maybe > I'm just a nutcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 A small correction, Alon, It's actually called " Herbal Ed's salve " .It's ingredients are: extracts of Comfrey root, Calendula flower, Chickweed, Plantain leaf, Mullein leaf, and St. John's Wort flowering tops, in a base of olive oil, bee's wax & Propolis. Just curious, BTW, these are all obviously western herbs, and comfrey is a powerful herb for external use, are any of these found in the zhong yao da ci dian? One other note, Ann, consider preparing a wash containing herbs such as she chuang zi, yin chen hao, ku shen, bai xian pi, di fu zi, cang er zi and fu ping. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:05:24 -0800 (PST) Alon Marcus <alonmarcus writes: > > " Ed's herbal salve " > >>>>>Yehuda whats in the salve > Alon > > Yehuda L Frischman < wrote: > Dear Ann, > > Just a couple of quick and perhaps different ideas to consider. Of > course, it goes without saying, that you want to establish and treat > the > appropriate constitutional predisposition, but consider well that > this > itching with hives or urticaria, could be the result of any of the > following etiologies: wind-cold, wind-heat, wind-damp, spleen & /or > stomach dysfunction, blood heat, blood stasis, blood deficiency, > disharmony between the Ren & Chong channels, emotional disturbance > or a > natural intolerance as manifested by allergy to either food, drugs, > or yin> beverages, or a combination of any of the above. Don't downplay the > emotional connection. Using herbs such as long gu, ye jiao teng, > zhen > zhu, bai ji li, yuan zhi, he huan pi, have the advantage of calming > the > liver or the heart, and also healing the skin. Even consider using > Chai > hu or suan zao ren, if the root is from the liver. Ask your patient, > also, if she notices that her symptoms get worse when she is > pre-menstrual or if she is under more stress. When all the obvious > approaches don't work, think outside the box. BTW, herbpharm, out > of > Oregon, makes " Ed's herbal salve " a wonderfully helpful ointment > which > should help with topical relief. > > Much success, > > Yehuda > > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:45:16 -0700 Ann <dr.annzee writes: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm at my wits end with this case and need some help. For the past > 4 > > months > > I have been treating a 30 yr old woman who was initially taking 3 > > different > > types of anti hist meds plus a general anti hist called Aerius. > I've > > managed > > to get her down to just the Aerius only when the hives onset. She > > used to > > suffer quite terribly everyday, hives on her chest, always on her > > wrists and > > upper back. > > She has Spleen xu, wiry pulse, softer stools, red tongue w/minimal > > > coat. > > When I first saw her I put her on Xiao Feng San-that one did the > > most good > > BUT her hives still occured, so I put her on Dang Gui Si Ni Tang > to > > nourish > > her blood and Spleen. Sill hives, so my last round of herbs are > Xiao > > Chai Hu > > Tang and Jade screen and xanthium formula(just for histamine > > control). > > W/these formulas you'll see from the attached e-mail, her hives > are > > now > > presenting quite differently................. > > Does anyone out there have any suggestions, PLEASE HELP > > see her attached e-mail below; > > > > > > thanks for any suggestions, Ann > > > > > > I have been managing to get the herbs down without too much > gagging, > > as > > prescribed. Since I picked them up, I have taken them and about 8 > of > > the > > antihistamine ones, but no Aerius. Today, I got small hives but > kept > > ignoring them, they would go away and come back somewhere else, on > > > my wrist, > > hands, palms, or on the inside of my elbow. Well I guess the hurry > > > to my > > massage and the rub down combined were the straw that broke the > > camel's > > back. I hived all over my back and shoulders, particularly on my > > right side > > (My massage therapist asked me to mention that, as she thought it > > was > > peculiar that most were on that side, only a few scattered on the > > left). > > > > My lips were a bit swollen at the top this morning, but I popped > two > > of > > those antihistamines and thought I was safe. After the massage and > > > keeping > > my head face down in that little hole, my eyes were swollen and my > > > lips were > > a plumped as well. I went home and took a whole Aerius and hoped > > that would > > be the end of it. I'm sitting here with my swollen eyes, and my > > boyfriend > > has > > benevolently agreed to pick me up after his soccer practice > instead > > of > > making his deformed girlfriend champion him from the > > sidelines...thank God > > for small mercies... > > > > All I can say is that the hives pop up and go away small at first > > then more > > each time, finally I get tired of fighting it and it goes crazy > > and...well > > you know what happens. It's like a tidal wave, according to my > > sister.. " I've > > never seen someone get hives on the bags under their eyes before, > > you look > > like someone beat you up " . I'm hoping you have some suggestions, > or > > maybe > > I'm just a nutcase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Thanks Yehuda, I've decided to try and create a formula for her based on all the elements that are " fitting " , I will certainly consider adding a wash aswell, thank you, Ann Yehuda L Frischman [] Friday, April 01, 2005 1:01 AM Re: Hives-HELP!!! A small correction, Alon, It's actually called " Herbal Ed's salve " .It's ingredients are: extracts of Comfrey root, Calendula flower, Chickweed, Plantain leaf, Mullein leaf, and St. John's Wort flowering tops, in a base of olive oil, bee's wax & Propolis. Just curious, BTW, these are all obviously western herbs, and comfrey is a powerful herb for external use, are any of these found in the zhong yao da ci dian? One other note, Ann, consider preparing a wash containing herbs such as she chuang zi, yin chen hao, ku shen, bai xian pi, di fu zi, cang er zi and fu ping. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:05:24 -0800 (PST) Alon Marcus <alonmarcus writes: > > " Ed's herbal salve " > >>>>>Yehuda whats in the salve > Alon > > Yehuda L Frischman < wrote: > Dear Ann, > > Just a couple of quick and perhaps different ideas to consider. Of > course, it goes without saying, that you want to establish and treat > the > appropriate constitutional predisposition, but consider well that > this > itching with hives or urticaria, could be the result of any of the > following etiologies: wind-cold, wind-heat, wind-damp, spleen & /or > stomach dysfunction, blood heat, blood stasis, blood deficiency, > disharmony between the Ren & Chong channels, emotional disturbance > or a > natural intolerance as manifested by allergy to either food, drugs, > or yin> beverages, or a combination of any of the above. Don't downplay the > emotional connection. Using herbs such as long gu, ye jiao teng, > zhen > zhu, bai ji li, yuan zhi, he huan pi, have the advantage of calming > the > liver or the heart, and also healing the skin. Even consider using > Chai > hu or suan zao ren, if the root is from the liver. Ask your patient, > also, if she notices that her symptoms get worse when she is > pre-menstrual or if she is under more stress. When all the obvious > approaches don't work, think outside the box. BTW, herbpharm, out > of > Oregon, makes " Ed's herbal salve " a wonderfully helpful ointment > which > should help with topical relief. > > Much success, > > Yehuda > > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:45:16 -0700 Ann <dr.annzee writes: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm at my wits end with this case and need some help. For the past > 4 > > months > > I have been treating a 30 yr old woman who was initially taking 3 > > different > > types of anti hist meds plus a general anti hist called Aerius. > I've > > managed > > to get her down to just the Aerius only when the hives onset. She > > used to > > suffer quite terribly everyday, hives on her chest, always on her > > wrists and > > upper back. > > She has Spleen xu, wiry pulse, softer stools, red tongue w/minimal > > > coat. > > When I first saw her I put her on Xiao Feng San-that one did the > > most good > > BUT her hives still occured, so I put her on Dang Gui Si Ni Tang > to > > nourish > > her blood and Spleen. Sill hives, so my last round of herbs are > Xiao > > Chai Hu > > Tang and Jade screen and xanthium formula(just for histamine > > control). > > W/these formulas you'll see from the attached e-mail, her hives > are > > now > > presenting quite differently................. > > Does anyone out there have any suggestions, PLEASE HELP > > see her attached e-mail below; > > > > > > thanks for any suggestions, Ann > > > > > > I have been managing to get the herbs down without too much > gagging, > > as > > prescribed. Since I picked them up, I have taken them and about 8 > of > > the > > antihistamine ones, but no Aerius. Today, I got small hives but > kept > > ignoring them, they would go away and come back somewhere else, on > > > my wrist, > > hands, palms, or on the inside of my elbow. Well I guess the hurry > > > to my > > massage and the rub down combined were the straw that broke the > > camel's > > back. I hived all over my back and shoulders, particularly on my > > right side > > (My massage therapist asked me to mention that, as she thought it > > was > > peculiar that most were on that side, only a few scattered on the > > left). > > > > My lips were a bit swollen at the top this morning, but I popped > two > > of > > those antihistamines and thought I was safe. After the massage and > > > keeping > > my head face down in that little hole, my eyes were swollen and my > > > lips were > > a plumped as well. I went home and took a whole Aerius and hoped > > that would > > be the end of it. I'm sitting here with my swollen eyes, and my > > boyfriend > > has > > benevolently agreed to pick me up after his soccer practice > instead > > of > > making his deformed girlfriend champion him from the > > sidelines...thank God > > for small mercies... > > > > All I can say is that the hives pop up and go away small at first > > then more > > each time, finally I get tired of fighting it and it goes crazy > > and...well > > you know what happens. It's like a tidal wave, according to my > > sister.. " I've > > never seen someone get hives on the bags under their eyes before, > > you look > > like someone beat you up " . I'm hoping you have some suggestions, > or > > maybe > > I'm just a nutcase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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