Jing Therapy

[Guest guest]

It might help us all to remember that the models of CM provide helpful windows

into that complexity. Might they inform this discussion?

>>>>>>

Jason, at the same time the biomedical model informs us about the possibility

that a single and specific pathology can influence multiple organ systems and

therefore be the true root cause of multisystem syndromes. In orthopedics this

is often very clear. If one does not know how to localized a specific site of

injury, one often gets side tract by the referred nature of pain and tenderness.

This cuts both ways.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Michael Broffman at the Pine St. Clinic in San Anselmo conducted a

study using human stem cell therapy (given outside the U.S.) and

Chinese herbs back in the nineties with favorable results. So this is

not a new idea or development.

 

 

 

 

On Apr 5, 2005, at 6:32 PM, Jason Robertson wrote:

 

-

>

> It seems that the most important areas you've pointed out regarding

> new reinterpretations of the concept of Jing regard gene therapy for

> cell regeneration in individual organs (islets of langerhans in the

> pancreas or heart tissue in heart disease, for example). Those are

> compelling examples to be sure. I assume that other examples would

> involve therapies designed to modify very specific, single genes at

> this point.

[Guest guest]

Alon Wrote:

 

>>>>>Jason, at the same time the biomedical model informs us about the

possibility that a single and specific pathology can influence multiple

organ systems and therefore be the true root cause of multisystem

syndromes.

 

Of course, I would be foolish to argue otherwise. My question, however, regards

a type of therapy that seems to go beyond our normal conception of a " biomedical

model " . When we are changing (even slightly) the underlying genetics, then

there may be a need for new models. We all know (I trust), that the models

provided by CM, when viewed at the proper level of complexity, can provide

insight that occasionally eludes western-style physiology.

 

Can the models of CM which, as Todd seems to be saying, take " Jing/genes " into

account also provide insight into the complexity that these new therapies are

brininging to light?

 

It seems to me that working with a so-called " therapy " that, as of yet, cannot

be applied to a physiological model with some semblance of clarity could be

quite dangerous indeed.

 

Just a question for now. Wondering what you guys think.

 

respectfully,

Jason Robertson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Can the models of CM which, as Todd seems to be saying, take " Jing/genes " into

account also provide insight into the complexity that these new therapies are

brininging to light?

 

It seems to me that working with a so-called " therapy " that, as of yet, cannot

be applied to a physiological model with some semblance of clarity could be

quite dangerous indeed.

 

Just a question for now. Wondering what you guys think.

>>>>>>>Agreed, i would also have to say that it is premature to say that we can

take advantage from CM ideas in these upcoming fields. Perhaps ?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A few days ago Z'ev expressed his concern about stem cell therapy- I

have similar concerns. There's an article in the Guardian today:

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1461654,00.html

 

Beauty salons fuel trade in aborted babies

 

Racketeers pay Ukraine women to sell foetuses to quack clinics for

£10,000 courses of 'anti-ageing' jabs

 

Tom Parfitt in Kiev

Sunday April 17, 2005

The Observer

 

Aborted foetuses from girls and young women are being exported from

Ukraine for use in illegal beauty treatments costing thousands of

pounds, The Observer can reveal.

 

The foetuses are cryogenically frozen and sold to clinics offering

'youth injections', claiming to rejuvenate skin and cure a raft of

diseases.

 

It is thought that women in the former Soviet republic are being paid

£100 a time to persuade them to have abortions and allow their

foetuses to be used in treatments. Most of the foetuses are sold in

Russia for up to £5,000 each. Some are paid extra to have abortions

late in their pregnancy.

 

Border guards stopped a train entering Russia from Ukraine last week

and arrested a 'mule' carrying 25 frozen foetuses hidden in two vacuum

flasks. The man said he had bought them from a medical research centre.

 

Ukrainian law allows an aborted human foetus to be passed to research

institutes if the woman involved consents and her anonymity is

protected. But police say staff at state health institutions are

selling them to private clinics offering illegal therapy.

 

'It is extremely difficult to detect this because there are corrupt

agreements between respected doctors and academics,' said one senior

officer.

 

Beauty salons in Moscow that buy the aborted material to provide

'foetal therapy' are flourishing, despite a Russian ban on all

commercial treatments using human cells other than bone marrow. The

salons offer injections of stem cells, the undivided cells present in

embryos that can adapt into any kind of tissue, although they are

still at the trial stage worldwide.

 

Sergei Shorobogatko, a former Kiev policeman who is investigating the

trade, said abortion clinics in the poor eastern regions of Donetsk

and Kharkiv are selling foetuses - often untested for viruses such as

Aids - without permission.

 

Abortions performed more than 12 weeks into a pregnancy are restricted

in Ukraine. Older foetuses fetch extra because their curative powers

are thought to be greater.

 

'When a doctor wants a foetus [to sell], he tells a girl there is a

medical reason for an abortion later than 12 weeks,' said

Shorobogatko. 'A special procedure extracts it with the placenta.'

 

The woman would be paid to wait until a late stage of her pregnancy,

or might never even know she was duped, he said. Her aborted foetus

would be passed to a middle-man or institution, which would cut it

into separate organs before placing these in storage. The material was

then sold and taken abroad.

 

Beauty courses of injections using blends of foetal cells are banned

in Ukraine and Russia, but they are widely available in salons that

charge up to £10,000. Wealthy clients are told the treatment can stop

the ageing process, or eliminate such debilitating conditions as

Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's. One fashionable Moscow clinic

approached by The Observer promised to 'take 10 years off your face'.

 

'We are talking about a huge, corrupt and dangerous trade in quack

therapies,' said Professor Vladimir Smirnov, director of the city's

Institute of Experimental Cardiology. Outside state institutes,

Russian law allows only extraction and storage of human cells, but

enforcement is lax.

 

Earlier this month the Ministry of Health announced that 37 out of 41

clinics offering stem-cell treatments in Moscow were acting illegally.

Yet most continue to operate. 'What is unclear is what people are

injected with,' said Dr Stephen Minger, of King's College, London.

'Are they really stem cells or a mixture of tissues?'

 

Ukrainians, accustomed to tales of illegal privatisations and

government corruption, are not surprised. 'They used to say we were

selling Ukraine,' said one reporter. 'Now we are selling Ukrainians;

moreover, in parts.'

 

I have also been asked by an ALS patient what I thought about the

treatment dr Huang Hongyun is offering as an ALS treatment in his

clinic in Beijing. It said it is a personal decision, and there might

be a lot of good to come from stem cell therapy; but we all know that

China is not a leader in human rights and I would feel very unsure of

the origin of stem cells that are being used in China.

There was a TV program here in Belgium in which a professor condemned

the Beijing practices, only to express a different view when he was

backstage: " If it would be me, or my family, I would be on a plane to

Beijing now. "

It is essentially an ethical issue, or a matter in which medicine (no

matter what kind of medicine) needs to be examined from an ethical/

religious/ spiritual viewpoint. Which is what the Guardian article is

asking for, imo.

 

Tom.