preserving essence

[Guest guest]

I think the chinese really had it right about the preservation of

essence. It is the key to health. So how do you preserve it? There

is no way to regenerate it at this time, so your best bet is to slow

its decline. This is accomplished in several ways:

 

1) by not overtaxing oneself - taxation diverts resources from proper

gene replication and repair to more immediate needs like muscle

contraction , for example. this would include sexual taxation, but

there is no evidence to support the idea that sexual taxation actually

is any more or less damaging than other forms. Arguably the pleasure

mitigates the taxation unlike say backbreaking labor.

 

2) by consuming foods and other substances that provide optimal

nourishment and prevent damage to DNA - many chinese herbs and other

supplements have antioxidant properties, for example.

 

Maximize cellular nutrition and minimize cellular waste accumulation.

This will prevent blood stasis to the degree that is possible as one

ages.

 

Blood stasis can be affected much more dramatically by chinese herbs

than prenatal essence can. This has been borne out by much research

which shows blood moving therapies to be among the most useful in

modern CM for a wide range of chronic illnesses. I think that is the

reason the theory of blood stasis is somewhat supplanting the the

concept of essence vacuity in modern china. A theory is not useful if

it does not yield therapy. All chinese know the ancient prohibitions

against sex. They do as they please anyway. But we should not be so

hasty as to dispense with the more ancient idea.

 

We have a very important fact about longevity from epidemiological

studies. Genes trump all. The only consistent factor in mortality

studies is the age of ones parents upon their deaths, not diet, not

exercise and so on. It appears that if you have good genes, you will

live a long life. This probably has to do with a variety of factors:

longer lasting cellular telomeres, better functioning liver

detoxification pathways, more effective cellular assimilation and

excretion mechanisms, etc. All of which are genetically based traits

involving enzymes produced by DNA (read: essence). Within a wide range

of behaviors, most people do OK. Others are born or are malnourished

or poisoned in some way. They don't do well within a wide range of

behaviors. It is this latter group that largely makes up the small

number of internal medicine patients seen by L.Ac.'s in the US. It is

very misleading to extrapolate from this small self-selected group back

into the population at large. This latter group must attend rigorously

to diet and regiment and can have seemingly miraculous benefits as a

result. Many others get better despite terrible habits.

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

There appears to be a fundamental problem with your gene-essence theory. It

would be helpful if you could cite souces that show gene deficiency.

 

One researcher who might eventually substantiate some of this is Dr. Kwang

Soh, who is confirming the work of Dr. Kim Bonghan. One important discovery

in Dr. Kim's work was the large amounts of DNA and RNA that were

free-floating thru the kyungrak (small physiological structures that

followed the channel pathways).

 

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

 

> <

>

>cha

> preserving essence

>Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:26:19 -0700

>

>I think the chinese really had it right about the preservation of

>essence. It is the key to health. So how do you preserve it? There

>is no way to regenerate it at this time, so your best bet is to slow

>its decline. This is accomplished in several ways:

>

>1) by not overtaxing oneself - taxation diverts resources from proper

>gene replication and repair to more immediate needs like muscle

>contraction , for example. this would include sexual taxation, but

>there is no evidence to support the idea that sexual taxation actually

>is any more or less damaging than other forms. Arguably the pleasure

>mitigates the taxation unlike say backbreaking labor.

>

>2) by consuming foods and other substances that provide optimal

>nourishment and prevent damage to DNA - many chinese herbs and other

>supplements have antioxidant properties, for example.

>

>Maximize cellular nutrition and minimize cellular waste accumulation.

>This will prevent blood stasis to the degree that is possible as one

>ages.

>

>Blood stasis can be affected much more dramatically by chinese herbs

>than prenatal essence can. This has been borne out by much research

>which shows blood moving therapies to be among the most useful in

>modern CM for a wide range of chronic illnesses. I think that is the

>reason the theory of blood stasis is somewhat supplanting the the

>concept of essence vacuity in modern china. A theory is not useful if

>it does not yield therapy. All chinese know the ancient prohibitions

>against sex. They do as they please anyway. But we should not be so

>hasty as to dispense with the more ancient idea.

>

>We have a very important fact about longevity from epidemiological

>studies. Genes trump all. The only consistent factor in mortality

>studies is the age of ones parents upon their deaths, not diet, not

>exercise and so on. It appears that if you have good genes, you will

>live a long life. This probably has to do with a variety of factors:

>longer lasting cellular telomeres, better functioning liver

>detoxification pathways, more effective cellular assimilation and

>excretion mechanisms, etc. All of which are genetically based traits

>involving enzymes produced by DNA (read: essence). Within a wide range

>of behaviors, most people do OK. Others are born or are malnourished

>or poisoned in some way. They don't do well within a wide range of

>behaviors. It is this latter group that largely makes up the small

>number of internal medicine patients seen by L.Ac.'s in the US. It is

>very misleading to extrapolate from this small self-selected group back

>into the population at large. This latter group must attend rigorously

>to diet and regiment and can have seemingly miraculous benefits as a

>result. Many others get better despite terrible habits.

>

>

>

>

>

>Chinese Herbs

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> On Behalf Of

> Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:26 AM

> cha

> preserving essence

>

>

> I think the chinese really had it right about the preservation of

> essence. It is the key to health. So how do you preserve it? There

> is no way to regenerate it at this time, so your best bet is to slow

> its decline. This is accomplished in several ways:

>

> 1) by not overtaxing oneself - taxation diverts resources from proper

> gene replication and repair to more immediate needs like muscle

> contraction , for example. this would include sexual taxation, but

> there is no evidence to support the idea that sexual taxation actually

> is any more or less damaging than other forms. Arguably the pleasure

> mitigates the taxation unlike say backbreaking labor.

[Jason]

Maybe or maybe not... but 1st - does it matter...? CM includes excessive

labor as well as bedroom taxation (sexual intemperance) as causes of

disease...Does CM say that sexual taxation is MORE depleting than excessive

labor, or dietary irreularities??? I also ask Todd et all: if you agree that

sexual taxation is a cause of disease, is the debate purely around if sexual

taxation can deplete essence? Does not every organ have jing or essence...

are you talking specifically about kidney essence (pre-natal) or does it

include post-natal essence??... I would like clarity in what exactly the

disagreement is... but in the meantime, here is an interesting antidote ....

2) the patient that I mentioned earlier, also has a strong liver qi

depression pattern (fueled by her essence blood insufficiency) - When she

works out heavy she feels better, if she does not work out she has other

interesting symptoms that pop up like 'the feeling like dirt is coming out

of her pores, irritability, tiredness) - Therefore the mere act of having

sexual organism (with her much loved fiancé) somehow depletes her

differently than lets say, working out (running) for 1 hour or more. This

is interesting to me, because something obviously is different than just

exerting the body in a physical manner. IF she has sex but has no orgasm,

she has no fatigue following... This says to me that an orgasm must be

depleting something... she surely thinks so.... Comments...

 

-Jason

 

 

>

> 2) by consuming foods and other substances that provide optimal

> nourishment and prevent damage to DNA - many chinese herbs and other

> supplements have antioxidant properties, for example.

>

> Maximize cellular nutrition and minimize cellular waste accumulation.

> This will prevent blood stasis to the degree that is possible as one

> ages.

>

> Blood stasis can be affected much more dramatically by chinese herbs

> than prenatal essence can. This has been borne out by much research

> which shows blood moving therapies to be among the most useful in

> modern CM for a wide range of chronic illnesses. I think that is the

> reason the theory of blood stasis is somewhat supplanting the the

> concept of essence vacuity in modern china. A theory is not useful if

> it does not yield therapy. All chinese know the ancient prohibitions

> against sex. They do as they please anyway. But we should not be so

> hasty as to dispense with the more ancient idea.

>

> We have a very important fact about longevity from epidemiological

> studies. Genes trump all. The only consistent factor in mortality

> studies is the age of ones parents upon their deaths, not diet, not

> exercise and so on. It appears that if you have good genes, you will

> live a long life. This probably has to do with a variety of factors:

> longer lasting cellular telomeres, better functioning liver

> detoxification pathways, more effective cellular assimilation and

> excretion mechanisms, etc. All of which are genetically based traits

> involving enzymes produced by DNA (read: essence). Within a wide range

> of behaviors, most people do OK. Others are born or are malnourished

> or poisoned in some way. They don't do well within a wide range of

> behaviors. It is this latter group that largely makes up the small

> number of internal medicine patients seen by L.Ac.'s in the US. It is

> very misleading to extrapolate from this small self-selected group back

> into the population at large. This latter group must attend rigorously

> to diet and regiment and can have seemingly miraculous benefits as a

> result. Many others get better despite terrible habits.

>

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbs

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

> board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

> free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

if you could cite souces that show gene deficiency

>>>>Mike that has more to do with lingo than actual differences.When one cross

translates from biomed to CM and vice versa one needs to look at the actual

descriptions not vocabulary (ie terms). Look at what CM relate to essence

deficiency and then what are the possible correlations.You will never find 100%

agreement mostly because of the limited detail and variables used in CM.Since

all substances in CM can become " deficient " that is the vocabulary and clinical

association used. CM could have never describe genetic errors even when trying

to describe similar observation.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " "

<@c...> wrote:

> Maybe or maybe not... but 1st - does it matter...? CM includes

excessive

> labor as well as bedroom taxation (sexual intemperance) as causes of

> disease...Does CM say that sexual taxation is MORE depleting than

excessive

> labor, or dietary irreularities??? I also ask Todd et all: if you

agree that

> sexual taxation is a cause of disease, is the debate purely around

if sexual

> taxation can deplete essence?

 

I think most people would agree that sex can cause fatigue. Lack of

moderation and pushing oneself beyond the limits of one's age and

general health is undoubtably going to cause taxation, regardless of

whether the activity is sex, exercise, study, etc. I think the real

question here is whether sexual fatigue is on par with exercise and

studying in terms of being a simple fatigue that can be completely

restored with rest and nutrition (vs. an activity that taps into deep

and finite reserves).

 

Undoubtably, ejaculation causes a depletion of essence- after all,

the word for semen and the word for essence in Chinese are one and

the same. CM has the concept that essence can be replenished by

generating surplus, but many of us have the conception that there is

a more finite and precious " pre-natal " essence that can be unduly

taxed by sex specifically.

 

I think this is an important issue to evaluate. It is important to

remember that Chinese attitudes towards sex have changed

significantly over history, and are currently undergoing a period of

great change (towards a more liberal attitude). Chinese culture has

constantly influenced CM, and perspectives on sex are especially

susceptible to cultural influence. We have seen the number of

diseases attributed to sexual taxation decline over history as

medical knowledge was refined, and this process is still dynamically

occurring.

 

We must remember that these questions have rarely been re-evaluated

in recent history on any large scale. Chinese culture has

traditionally revered earlier attitudes and has been reluctant to

dramatically change the doctrines laid down in the past. Chinese

culture has been sexually conservative for the past several hundred

years, and even in the present day no one talks about sex openly.

Chinese people today only talk about sex with their closest of

friends, and hardly ever talk about it with their doctors. So what

data do we have to base our suppositions on besides ancient texts?

Most concepts in ancient texts have been constantly tested, employed,

refined, and agreed upon. But sex is never spoken about openly in

Chinese society.

 

Cultural attitudes about whether sex is healthy in abundance or

sinful/taxing in abundance gives us a nearly impossible placebo

effect (or self-fulfilling prophecy) to overcome. The TCM community

is heavily predisposed to seeing sex as a taxing endeavor, and our

patients all have a variety of spiritual or scientific backgrounds

that will predispose them to experience sexual fatigue in different

ways. We can only learn so much from modern clinical Chinese medical

practice in this arena, because they hardly ever discuss it with

their patients.

 

I don't know that any definitive answers are possible, because we all

have different experiences. Jason and Z'ev have reported cases of

young people suffering extreme fatigue from sex. Others likely have

cases of very healthy people who have sex frequently with no obvious

ill effects. Bob brought up a case of an older man experiencing

great taxation after being with a younger woman (which, I might add,

effectively puts a spike in the wheel of the traditional Chinese

ideas that influenced Mao Ze-Dong to seek sex with young women as a

route to longevity).

 

Obviously, psychological problems could cause someone to have a

grossly inappropriate sexual life, but here I suspect sexual taxation

is just an accessory to a larger issue. For normal healthy people,

it seems like it is just common sense that anything in moderation is

essentially fine for the body. Since our medical doctrine endorses

most activities within normal, healthy limits, why do we have an

attitude that sex is something that can seriously deplete health more

readily than other activities? I do believe that sex is one of the

most sacred, core human experiences, by why should we be predisposed

to thinking of this sacred sensation as a primary cause of illness

rather than a primary cause of health?

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

>

>

> On Behalf Of Eric Brand

>

> I don't know that any definitive answers are possible, because we all

> have different experiences. Jason and Z'ev have reported cases of

> young people suffering extreme fatigue from sex. Others likely have

> cases of very healthy people who have sex frequently with no obvious

> ill effects.

[Jason]

IMO, Z'ev and My 'case examples' are quite more interesting. Obviously most

young people or healthy people are not going to experience any problems with

sex... But when people's jing or source qi or whatever is already lacking we

have an opportunity to observe the effects more closely. The fact that

others do not experience such exhaustion is meaningless to me. It is also

interesting because in my case it is not overwork, or even long exercise

that exhausts this person (it actually helps), but the mere act of having an

orgasm. For some others having an orgasm causes no problems, yet overwork

is detrimental. Yet for others just eating irregularly is what causes their

downfall... All of this makes sense to me and follows CM logic... Although

I completely agree that these issues should be investigated further, I think

it is premature to discount the Chinese's 'belief' that sexual taxation is

an issue of importance just because we have thought through some of the

sociological Chinese views on sex and then claim we have no REAL evidence.

Well IMO there is no REAL evidence either way, and claiming that most people

in America feel fine after sex, that there is a 100 year old man who says

the secret of life is having sex 2 times a day, or Dr. Ruth says sex is good

is meaningless. Clearly there are people that have issues with having orgasm

/ sex that are detrimental to their health, this is what interests me. I

don't think the Chinese are saying that sex is bad and if ANYONE out there

has toooo much sex (or just normal sex) then this will weaken them. Well

maybe some people are saying that (eric who is saying this?), but that is

IMO silly and not of any real clinical value, more important is what type of

person has problems with sex, what does that mean, and how do we correct

it...

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

Bob brought up a case of an older man experiencing

> great taxation after being with a younger woman (which, I might add,

> effectively puts a spike in the wheel of the traditional Chinese

> ideas that influenced Mao Ze-Dong to seek sex with young women as a

> route to longevity).

>

> Obviously, psychological problems could cause someone to have a

> grossly inappropriate sexual life, but here I suspect sexual taxation

> is just an accessory to a larger issue. For normal healthy people,

> it seems like it is just common sense that anything in moderation is

> essentially fine for the body. Since our medical doctrine endorses

> most activities within normal, healthy limits, why do we have an

> attitude that sex is something that can seriously deplete health more

> readily than other activities? I do believe that sex is one of the

> most sacred, core human experiences, by why should we be predisposed

> to thinking of this sacred sensation as a primary cause of illness

> rather than a primary cause of health?

>

> Eric

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " "

<@c...> wrote:

> IMO, Z'ev and My 'case examples' are quite more interesting.

Obviously most

> young people or healthy people are not going to experience any

problems with

> sex... But when people's jing or source qi or whatever is already

lacking we

> have an opportunity to observe the effects more closely. The fact that

> others do not experience such exhaustion is meaningless to me.

 

I agree with your points, and I agree that these unusual cases are

more valuable places to look for insight. While I don't discount the

Chinese concept of sex potentially taxing the body, I do think that

our education (and Chinese texts) place far more emphasis on the

detrimental effects of sex than any potential health benefits. I

would think that the detrimental effects and benefits would be

relatively proportional to each other, but that attitude isn't really

what we see in the literature overall.

 

 

> interesting because in my case it is not overwork, or even long exercise

> that exhausts this person (it actually helps), but the mere act of

having an

> orgasm. For some others having an orgasm causes no problems, yet

overwork

> is detrimental. Yet for others just eating irregularly is what

causes their

> downfall...

 

Why do you think that she suffers from this? Does she have a lot of

other signs that point to essence vacuity, or does she have more signs

that make you think of a psychological root (in modern terms,

obviously)? It is a particularly interesting case because she is a

woman. After all, sex should not affect women's essence in the way

that it affects men's, and if she was that low on essence, it seems

like she couldn't excel in exercise, etc.

 

Interesting topic. I'd rather be in the group that is easily harmed

by overwork rather than sex, myself.

 

Eric

[Guest guest]

Right on, Jason.

 

Z'ev

On Apr 25, 2005, at 6:13 AM, wrote:

 

> Well

> maybe some people are saying that (eric who is saying this?), but that

> is

> IMO silly and not of any real clinical value, more important is what

> type of

> person has problems with sex, what does that mean, and how do we

> correct

> it...

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> On Behalf Of Eric Brand

> Monday, April 25, 2005 10:09 AM

>

> Re: preserving essence

>

>

>

> , " "

> <@c...> wrote:

> > IMO, Z'ev and My 'case examples' are quite more interesting.

> Obviously most

> > young people or healthy people are not going to experience any

> problems with

> > sex... But when people's jing or source qi or whatever is already

> lacking we

> > have an opportunity to observe the effects more closely. The fact that

> > others do not experience such exhaustion is meaningless to me.

>

> I agree with your points, and I agree that these unusual cases are

> more valuable places to look for insight. While I don't discount the

> Chinese concept of sex potentially taxing the body, I do think that

> our education (and Chinese texts) place far more emphasis on the

> detrimental effects of sex than any potential health benefits. I

> would think that the detrimental effects and benefits would be

> relatively proportional to each other, but that attitude isn't really

> what we see in the literature overall.

[Jason]

Yes I agree... you do see little of the positive benefits... but again most

texts we look at are for pathological states (internal medicine) and hence

they explore what can go wrong and why! This only makes sense to me...

Furthermore, I have Chinese Texts that surely go into the positive benefits

of sex, as I am sure Ken Rose does also. And these are a whole different

type of book...

 

Also, in general I do not find that Chinese Texts over emphasize how bad or

harmful SEX is. They merely mention sexual TAXATION as a possible

etiological factor for the cause of disease... makes sense to me, just as

eating to many donuts, or working 80 hours a week...

 

-