Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 fascinating report today on NPR. amazing the way these things dovetail chinese researchers are proceeding full steam ahead with stem cell research. one might question their ethics in the use of embryonic tissue unless you actually understood their ethics. Confucian ethicists have decided that life begins at birth, not conception. Thus, it is considered unethical NOT to use aborted fetal tissue for medical purposes. Ethics is not black and white and there are a lot more chinese than there are of us. The europeans also don't have a problem and even the Hindus don't seem to care. Its just us and the arabs racing backward in time to see who can get to the feet of god first. Chinese molecular biologists trained in the US are actually returning to China because that is where they think they have a future. Foreign investors are dumping huge amounts of money into projects that are part of a national initiative to win china a nobel prize in regenerative medicine. They will likely devote a lot of effort towards nanotech and nanomedicine as well. China really has no chance of feeding and growing its population without some of the promises of nanotech. Let's face it. We can do what we want, but if the projections about breakthrough technology are wrong, we are already doomed and there is nothing we can do about it. Chinese clinics are already successfully applying some of the procedures only studied in animals or small groups elsewhere - reported here on 4/15. How long after a major breakthrough occurs will the walls of resistance continue to hold in the west. Interestingly, the efforts towards regenerative medicine apparently include a healthy dose of TCM. This is one path TCM will take in the future in the country of its origin takes its place as the world's leader in economics, technology and science. For those who envision (and want) a future radically different than a return to some illusionary pretech paradise, there are opportunities in China. You can build a private practice in America catering to wealthy malcontents holding true to some pure form of CM or you can join the fray and see where the next phase of Chinese medicine will go. It is CHINESE medicine, after all. And if it evolves as part of a modern regenerative medicine, who are we to claim foul? It is no different than those who resisted the wen bing or the theories of li dong yuan. Who were those resisters? It doesn't matter any more. I see a future where TCM docs inject stem cells and prescribe a classical formula on the same visit. Why not. Its just jing tonification. Chinese Herbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Why do you assume that the high cost, high tech procedures will be the future? If the direction of America continues with fewer of us w/health insurance and the declining livable wages, we are the only legit option. The markets will allow us to compete better and with fewer side effects. Food for thought. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > < > >cha > NPR today >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:56:47 -0700 > >fascinating report today on NPR. amazing the way these things dovetail > >chinese researchers are proceeding full steam ahead with stem cell >research. one might question their ethics in the use of embryonic >tissue unless you actually understood their ethics. Confucian >ethicists have decided that life begins at birth, not conception. >Thus, it is considered unethical NOT to use aborted fetal tissue for >medical purposes. Ethics is not black and white and there are a lot >more chinese than there are of us. The europeans also don't have a >problem and even the Hindus don't seem to care. Its just us and the >arabs racing backward in time to see who can get to the feet of god >first. Chinese molecular biologists trained in the US are actually >returning to China because that is where they think they have a future. > Foreign investors are dumping huge amounts of money into projects that >are part of a national initiative to win china a nobel prize in >regenerative medicine. They will likely devote a lot of effort towards >nanotech and nanomedicine as well. China really has no chance of >feeding and growing its population without some of the promises of >nanotech. Let's face it. We can do what we want, but if the >projections about breakthrough technology are wrong, we are already >doomed and there is nothing we can do about it. > >Chinese clinics are already successfully applying some of the >procedures only studied in animals or small groups elsewhere - >reported here on 4/15. How long after a major breakthrough occurs will >the walls of resistance continue to hold in the west. Interestingly, >the efforts towards regenerative medicine apparently include a healthy >dose of TCM. This is one path TCM will take in the future in the >country of its origin takes its place as the world's leader in >economics, technology and science. For those who envision (and want) a >future radically different than a return to some illusionary pretech >paradise, there are opportunities in China. You can build a private >practice in America catering to wealthy malcontents holding true to >some pure form of CM or you can join the fray and see where the next >phase of Chinese medicine will go. It is CHINESE medicine, after all. >And if it evolves as part of a modern regenerative medicine, who are we >to claim foul? It is no different than those who resisted the wen bing >or the theories of li dong yuan. Who were those resisters? It doesn't >matter any more. > >I see a future where TCM docs inject stem cells and prescribe a >classical formula on the same visit. Why not. Its just jing >tonification. > > >Chinese Herbs > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 In a message dated 4/28/05 5:03:51 PM, writes: > Chinese clinics are already successfully applying some of the > procedures only studied in animals or small groups elsewhere - > reported here on 4/15. How long after a major breakthrough occurs will > the walls of resistance continue to hold in the west. > Its about time they spent billions and we reverse engineered their success, if they have any. It is all conjecture at this point. Remember the war on cancer? DAVE David Molony 101 Bridge Street Catasauqua, PA 18032 Phone (610)264-2755 Fax (610) 264-7292 **********Confidentiality Notice ********** This electronic transmission and any attached documents or other writings are confidential and are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) identified above. This message may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure under applicable law, including the FTC Safeguard Rule and U.S.-EU Safe Harbor Principles. If you are the intended recipient, you are responsible for establishing appropriate safeguards to maintain data integrity and security. If the receiver of this information is not the intended recipient, or the employee, or agent responsible for delivering the information to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or storage of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender by return email and delete the electronic transmission, including all attachments from your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Mike, I have no doubt that such high-tech procedures will be a part of the future. What concerns me is that the inviolable right of all people to health care may be further eroded as such expensive high tech gains develop. The health care system in this country is already priced beyond the reach of many of our own citizens. One of the great strengths of Chinese medicine is its relatively low-tech basis. You can practice it in Santa Fe or Darfur if you want. I'd like to hear more about the strengths of Chinese medicine on this list, and about the genius and advances of great physicians in our medicine, rather than just how we don't measure up to these technological developments. On Apr 28, 2005, at 4:10 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > > Why do you assume that the high cost, high tech procedures will be the > future? If the direction of America continues with fewer of us > w/health > insurance and the declining livable wages, we are the only legit > option. > The markets will allow us to compete better and with fewer side > effects. > Food for thought. > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 > > > On Behalf Of > > I'd like to hear more about the strengths of Chinese medicine on > this list, and about the genius and advances of great physicians in our > medicine, rather than just how we don't measure up to these > technological developments. [Jason] Hear, Hear! Let's talk about CM! wang meng ying, pu fu zhou, liu du zhou, let's talk about them... We should not forget that one of CM's main methods of transmission of clinical gems are through case studies, not long term population studies... Instead of just putting down the individual clinical reality, let's see why the Chinese have chosen this medium for so many years... I choose the NOW instead of hope filled dreams of the future... When the greatness comes, well let it come, why the fixation on something that might not even come about for 20 years (oh yeah its right around the corner...)... what are you going to do in the meantime? Furthermore, it was said we should jump on the stem cell bandwagon... What is suggested that we do? Even if stem cells were developed, does anyone think that a L.Ac. is the USA is going to be able to use them? This really has nothing to do with CM scope of practice here... Let western medicine do what they want. We can take the best from them, but why not build our skills instead of abandoning them for future hopes? There are so many skills to learn, and most practitioners only have mastered (or have even been exposed to) a fraction of them... there is a wealth of information in CM... don't let anyone say otherwise! -Jason > > > On Apr 28, 2005, at 4:10 PM, mike Bowser wrote: > > > > > Why do you assume that the high cost, high tech procedures will be the > > future? If the direction of America continues with fewer of us > > w/health > > insurance and the declining livable wages, we are the only legit > > option. > > The markets will allow us to compete better and with fewer side > > effects. > > Food for thought. > > > > > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including > board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a > free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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