great medicines

[Guest guest]

All the great holistic medicines share a similar view of the body.

That there is a state of optimal health that depends on all the right

stuff being in all the right places. And that medicine succeeds by

making sure there is plenty of good stuff to provide the building

blocks and energy for life as well as strong effective mechanism for

clearing excess and waste from the system. This basic idea is common

to ayurveda, CM, greek medicine and naturopathy. It has not, however

been the central premise of WM. WM has focused more on addressing

the gross pathology rather than the microscopic aberrations, largely

because microcosm was not well understood up until very recently.

There was no way to map genes, thus no way to treat this level. The

older medicines sidestepped this thorny issue by treating based upon

concept without having to prove mechanisms first. But WM made great

strides by killing bacteria, cutting out tissues and inhibiting or

stimulating the endstage of a process that started in some mysterious

previously unknowable gene expression. There was little or no

thought given to how one might alter disease merely by altering

nutrition and waste (supplementing and draining, as it were).

 

What has drawn me to the modern writers in the fields of stem cell

therapy and nanomedicine particularly, is their emphasis on this very

same idea, albeit in a high tech incarnation. While many are scared

of self-replicating nanobots taking over the world, most experts

agree this would not happen by accident, would be very hard to do on

purpose (it would be far easier to make a nanonuke, for example, so

why bother with replicants), and has nothing to do with nanomedicine

since this technology will only acting inside the body (not spewing

nanobots into the ecosystem). So set aside the fear for a moment and

be intrigued that this very modern high tech concept begins with a

very fundamental and ancient idea. If regeneration of cell lines

with either stem cells or nanobots streaming through the bloodstream

was able to repair defective DNA and clear cellular waste (like

amyloid and lipofuscin), isn't that just the most elegant form of

supplementation, regulation and drainage imaginable. That is

certainly always been my goal to accomplish with herbs, nutrition,

supplements. Naturopathic medicine has been talking explicitly about

these concepts in the same exact terms for the past twenty years.

And now it is turning out that stem cells may root and grow best in a

properly balanced soil. And the chinese who are leading the way in

stem cell therapy are using chinese herbal therapies to enhance the

success of stem cell therapy in a way no toxic western drugs ever

could. This is a moment to seize. A philosophical convergence of

all the great world medicines is possible. In this new paradigm, the

core concepts of TCM will essentially be mainstream, not just a small

facet of CAM or IM. If we fight WM on this one, what are we fighting

for, the status quo of drug em and slice em? That doesn't make much

sense.

 

All these things can be done ethically and safely if done in the

light of day. they will be done either way, but the danger is that

unfounded hysteria will result in driving the research underground

and then catastrophe is far more likely. They not only do NOT

violate the principles of TCM, but actually enhance the application

of holistic principles to levels hitherto unimaginable. TCM will

apparently be part of this push for a nobel prize in regenerative

medicine in china whether some members of this list like it or not.

And I doubt there is anything anyone can do to stop this trend.

Those who seek opportunities in this area will at the cutting edge of

a new 21st century medicine and while there will always be a niche in

America for hardcore traditionalists (apparently), I think this is

where the future lies. One of the pioneering physicians and writers

in this field, Terry Grossman, MD advises against the use of

conventional modern medicine, is a strong proponent of herbs,

acupuncture, nutrition as well as stem cell and nanomedicine. Many

whom I consider to be leading thinkers around the world see the

natural convergence of these things and the radical dichotomy with

current medical practice. I think we would do well to consider this

too. Dr. Grossman's site is

 

http://www.fmiclinic.com/learn_more/terry_grossman.php

 

His book is Fantastic Voyage by Ray Kurzweil and Terry Grossman MD,

available on the site. His co-author is a genius computer programmer

who has a very interesting site as well at http://www.kurzweilai.net

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On May 9, 2005, at 9:34 AM, wrote:

 

> All the great holistic medicines share a similar view of the body.

> That there is a state of optimal health that depends on all the right

> stuff being in all the right places. And that medicine succeeds by

> making sure there is plenty of good stuff to provide the building

> blocks and energy for life as well as strong effective mechanism for

> clearing excess and waste from the system. This basic idea is common

> to ayurveda, CM, greek medicine and naturopathy. It has not, however

> been the central premise of WM.

 

What we are talking about, basically, is humoral medicine, or what

French physicians call the 'milieu interieur'. It was rejected by WM

after the fall of Galen.

 

>

>

> with either stem cells or nanobots streaming through the bloodstream

> was able to repair defective DNA and clear cellular waste (like

> amyloid and lipofuscin), isn't that just the most elegant form of

> supplementation, regulation and drainage imaginable. That is

> certainly always been my goal to accomplish with herbs, nutrition,

> supplements. Naturopathic medicine has been talking explicitly about

> these concepts in the same exact terms for the past twenty years.

> And now it is turning out that stem cells may root and grow best in a

> properly balanced soil. And the chinese who are leading the way in

> stem cell therapy are using chinese herbal therapies to enhance the

> success of stem cell therapy in a way no toxic western drugs ever

> could. This is a moment to seize. A philosophical convergence of

> all the great world medicines is possible. In this new paradigm, the

> core concepts of TCM will essentially be mainstream, not just a small

> facet of CAM or IM. If we fight WM on this one, what are we fighting

> for, the status quo of drug em and slice em? That doesn't make much

> sense.

 

I think that combining Chinese medicine with stem cell therapy is a

good idea. I hope you are correct about a new 'golden age' of

medicine, but we have many potential obstacles in the way such

as. . . .(see below).

>

> apparently be part of this push for a nobel prize in regenerative

> medicine in china whether some members of this list like it or not.

> And I doubt there is anything anyone can do to stop this trend.

> Those who seek opportunities in this area will at the cutting edge of

> a new 21st century medicine and while there will always be a niche in

> America for hardcore traditionalists (apparently), I think this is

> where the future lies.

 

The reason for being a 'hardcore traditionalist' is very

simple. . . .not to be stuck in the past, but to be able to use the

results of deep study of the medical tradition to communicate to the

present world. The classics represent a virtual world, where we can

then apply the deep concepts to modern problems.

 

And one of the factors that holds back our profession is a lack of

thinkers who can communicate with the cutting edge of modern medicine

and science with the deep gems of the Chinese medical tradition. One

needs to just cruise some of the user groups devoted to TCM and other

alternative medicines to see that there is a gap of deep

understanding of the medical traditions you describe.

 

 

 

> One of the pioneering physicians and writers

> in this field, Terry Grossman, MD advises against the use of

> conventional modern medicine, is a strong proponent of herbs,

> acupuncture, nutrition as well as stem cell and nanomedicine. Many

> whom I consider to be leading thinkers around the world see the

> natural convergence of these things and the radical dichotomy with

> current medical practice. I think we would do well to consider this

> too. Dr. Grossman's site is

>

> http://www.fmiclinic.com/learn_more/terry_grossman.php

>

> His book is Fantastic Voyage by Ray Kurzweil and Terry Grossman MD,

> available on the site. His co-author is a genius computer programmer

> who has a very interesting site as well at http://www.kurzweilai.net

 

A true medical pioneer. I hope he will collaborate more with the CM

community in the future.

 

 

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Todd

 

That's not what I have heard about nano chemistry. I'm a bit concerned

that you believe they would stay in the body. What makes you say so?

Drugs, medicines, herbs all find their way out again, into the

ecosystem, of which our bodies are an integral part.

While many are scared

> of self-replicating nanobots taking over the world, most experts

> agree this would not happen by accident, would be very hard to do on

> purpose (it would be far easier to make a nanonuke, for example, so

> why bother with replicants), and has nothing to do with nanomedicine

> since this technology will only acting inside the body (not spewing

> nanobots into the ecosystem).

 

Yes, it is exciting that more modern Biology is catching up with quantum

theory and systems theory. That is one reason I am choosing to go back

to school to get my major science courses in line, including genetics

and physics. I am excited and want to be part of the conversation.

 

However, I will not, I choose not to ever believe in any one theory.

The tao is beyond words, beyond maps and instead I want to practice

direct perception to the deepest and most sensitive as I can. This is

what I see the Ancients were able to do and discover the depth of sub

atomic physics without an accelerator. There is more to life than meets

the eye and the senses of our heart are poorly underrated.

 

Naturopathic medicine has been talking explicitly about

> these concepts in the same exact terms for the past twenty years.

> And now it is turning out that stem cells may root and grow best in a

> properly balanced soil. And the chinese who are leading the way in

> stem cell therapy are using chinese herbal therapies to enhance the

> success of stem cell therapy in a way no toxic western drugs ever

> could. This is a moment to seize.

 

Yes, it is exciting. I also recognize in my seeking conversation is that

a significant part of my belief system is science and I also recognize

its limitations. So I want to be able to communicate in it and

understand what is being done so I can be part of educating others.

Since my first Jin Shin Do classes I was also taking College Biology and

I see the Yin/Yang, the Five Phases and Eight directions in all of life

and I too dream of blending. But, I keep them separate all the same.

 

 

Chinese medicine views of course help, we really need to get closer to

science in this country if we want to do the same thing as China,

unfortunately, we are not Chinese. Our government and world view will

eat us if we don't eat them, so hopefully we stay at a safe distance

until we are strong enough to keep a lot of our values and principles.

 

I am one of the people who find biochemistry interesting, but not a

substitute for whole plant medicines. There is no comparison. Western

medicine can't take the medicine out of a plant without changing what

the plant was doing. We have to move beyond reductionist reasoning.

Energy is a result of everything working together and being in the right

place, and doesn't arise just because the parts are all there.

 

A philosophical convergence of

> all the great world medicines is possible. In this new paradigm, the

> core concepts of TCM will essentially be mainstream, not just a small

> facet of CAM or IM. If we fight WM on this one, what are we fighting

> for, the status quo of drug em and slice em? That doesn't make much

> sense.

>

> All these things can be done ethically and safely if done in the

> light of day. they will be done either way, but the danger is that

> unfounded hysteria will result in driving the research underground

> and then catastrophe is far more likely.

 

I don't believe in total safety here. Ever, Life just isn't like that.

 

They not only do NOT

> violate the principles of TCM, but actually enhance the application

> of holistic principles to levels hitherto unimaginable. TCM will

> apparently be part of this push for a nobel prize in regenerative

> medicine in china whether some members of this list like it or not.

> And I doubt there is anything anyone can do to stop this trend.

> Those who seek opportunities in this area will at the cutting edge of

> a new 21st century medicine and while there will always be a niche in

> America for hardcore traditionalists (apparently), I think this is

> where the future lies. One of the pioneering physicians and writers

> in this field, Terry Grossman, MD advises against the use of

> conventional modern medicine, is a strong proponent of herbs,

> acupuncture, nutrition as well as stem cell and nanomedicine. Many

> whom I consider to be leading thinkers around the world see the

> natural convergence of these things and the radical dichotomy with

> current medical practice. I think we would do well to consider this

> too. Dr. Grossman's site is

>

> http://www.fmiclinic.com/learn_more/terry_grossman.php

 

I checked his site out and his book at amazon. Do you know him? He

sounds interesting. I personally don't buy the genes thing. Genetic

inheritance to me is like an inherited recipe box and what gets brought

out is more determined by the environment and what's available. What's

available in the recipe box is also important. Genes are not like

recipe cards on the other hand either because they are brought to life

by being recombined and stimulated by many many proteins and don't just

do their thing by themselves. So this is something that connects with

Chinese medicine. Looking at the whole pattern, not just this part or

that part is how to find the right approach in healing in each situation.

 

On this note is an interesting book by a cell biologist who states that

the intelligence of the cell is the membrane. This makes sense to me.

 

My other thought on this is the whole idea of immortality. That's an

idea to grock. I see that I am here, and at some point I will not be

here, that somehow, I am giving way and that is a good thing at some

point. Asking why people give way to other life is question to ask. Why

we go on dying trends, versus life?

 

The other thought about his book is that he left out the feelings of the

heart as a major source of heart disease. The heart is where the Shen

is, The governing of all the other phases and zang/fu. He left that

out. Depression is noted as a survival degrader in heart disease and as

the Mental Health government sources say, depression is an under treated

disease in our country.

 

I like this kind of conversation, It is hard to talk about Chinese

Medicine along side it, but I will try to stretch with it. I think these

conversations are important. So thanks.

 

Rozz

>

> His book is Fantastic Voyage by Ray Kurzweil and Terry Grossman MD,

> available on the site. His co-author is a genius computer programmer

> who has a very interesting site as well at http://www.kurzweilai.net

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbs

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, Rozz Lieght <Rusty7@g...> wrote:

> Hi Todd

>

> That's not what I have heard about nano chemistry. I'm a bit concerned

> that you believe they would stay in the body. What makes you say so?

 

 

according to what I have read, it is a simple matter to control these things.

they are not alive.

they can be programmed with limited functions and to be non-replicating. the

scenario you

describe is science fiction horror movie that is more likely, IMO, if such

research is driven

underground. again, it will be done and the products will be developed. so the

question is

not IF, but WHEN and HOW do we respond. Hoping it won't work at all or that

public

opposition in the US will stop it is a pipe-dream. Not yours, I can see that

you are

openminded. I have posted many links on this topic. go to foresight.org to see

the thoughts

of peer reviewed sciebntists on this issue. Read drexler's and freitas's online

books (there

are 4 of them and it will take a few months of pare time, then get back to me).

I can hardly

make the case as they do.