fun with hormones - and measurements!

[Guest guest]

Hey Cara,

 

Sorry to bug again, but one more question on the dosage: the old online

converters tell me 2 oz equals about 1.133 liang, and that 2 liang

equals about 3.5 oz; 20 liang would be about 600 g!!! The latter seems

too high; I presume that you meant a daily dosage of about 2 liang; but

I wanted to check because you just never know.

 

Thanks,

Nora

 

Cara Frank wrote:

 

>Hi Nora,

>You can treat galactorrhea with very high does of Mai Ya- at least 2 ounces

>( 20 Liang daily). You wont get results using less. You could incorporate

>into a xiao yao san scenario. But I think you also want to include herbs

>that conduct blood down: wang bu liu xing for example. Yi mu cao as well.

>You don¹t mention \ the quality of her menses.

>Try the herbs for 2-3 months, then repeat the blood work. I have treated

>several of these cases, all with success. But to be fair, they all had

>pituitary tumors, so I don¹t know if that affects the outcome.

>

> hope this helps,

>Cara

>

>

>

>>Hey All,

>>

>>I have some herb/hormone questions for you:

>>

>>1. My partner, a harried grad-student type, recently went through some

>>un-fun medicalization after a routine gynecological check-up, involving

>>the school clinic doc being SURE that she (my partner) had PCOS, and

>>eventually getting a referral to an endocrinologist, who diagnosed

>>idiopathic galactorrhea.

>>

>>Some history (incomplete, because my partner isn't really my patient):

>>she has a history of galactorrhea (since age 18 or so - she's 32 now)

>>and has always had infrequent, heavy periods (every other months to

>>every three months). No history of pregnancy. Prolactin levels are

>>very high (I don't have the lab values handy, but the endocrinologist

>>said much higher than is normal for PCOS, almost pregnancy-level), MRI

>>did not show any abnormality of the pituitary.

>>

>>In terms of TCM diagnosis, as I said I don't fully trust my perspective

>>as her partner, but I would say she's pretty much a " Xiao Yao Wan " type:

>>a little Spleen deficiency (she is a student, after all) and a little

>>Liver Qi Stagnation. She's generally healthy: sleeps well, eats/digests

>>well, no major historical health issues. No signs of heat, tends more

>>to cold. She wants to try herbs before going on the medication course

>>(I think a dopamine agonist) prescribed by the endocrinologist, who said

>>go ahead, give it three months. The question is, what to try? I have

>>her taking mai ya for now, but could it really be strong enough? Does

>>anyone have any experience with such a thing, or with stopping lactation

>>generally? Do folks think that acupuncture is a better thing to try?

>>

>>2. While on the subject, I live in an area with a fair number of

>> " visible " transsexuals (I mostly know FTMs, but there are MTFs of course

>>as well). Some of them want to transition with the minimum of synthetic

>>hormone. Does anyone have any good information on regulating hormones

>>to this kind of degree with Chinese herbs? There are lots of factors of

>>course, including whether the person has their ovaries/testes removed,

>>and if they choose to get, say, testosterone shots, what the long-term

>>effects are and whether side effects can be mediated with herbs. Any

>>experience out there? Any known articles on the subject?

>>

>>Thanks for any advice you can give,

>>Nora

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

>>approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

>>discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Nora,

if you hang on for a day, I will try to look up the formula for the last

person I treated with this condition. The problem is I cannot remember her

last name........

I¹ll get back to you ASAP

Cara

 

> Hey Cara,

>

> Sorry to bug again, but one more question on the dosage: the old online

> converters tell me 2 oz equals about 1.133 liang, and that 2 liang

> equals about 3.5 oz; 20 liang would be about 600 g!!! The latter seems

> too high; I presume that you meant a daily dosage of about 2 liang; but

> I wanted to check because you just never know.

>

> Thanks,

> Nora

>

> Cara Frank wrote:

>

>> >Hi Nora,

>> >You can treat galactorrhea with very high does of Mai Ya- at least 2 ounces

>> >( 20 Liang daily). You wont get results using less. You could incorporate

>> >into a xiao yao san scenario. But I think you also want to include herbs

>> >that conduct blood down: wang bu liu xing for example. Yi mu cao as well.

>> >You don¹t mention \ the quality of her menses.

>> >Try the herbs for 2-3 months, then repeat the blood work. I have treated

>> >several of these cases, all with success. But to be fair, they all had

>> >pituitary tumors, so I don¹t know if that affects the outcome.

>> >

>> > hope this helps,

>> >Cara

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>> >>Hey All,

>>> >>

>>> >>I have some herb/hormone questions for you:

>>> >>

>>> >>1. My partner, a harried grad-student type, recently went through some

>>> >>un-fun medicalization after a routine gynecological check-up, involving

>>> >>the school clinic doc being SURE that she (my partner) had PCOS, and

>>> >>eventually getting a referral to an endocrinologist, who diagnosed

>>> >>idiopathic galactorrhea.

>>> >>

>>> >>Some history (incomplete, because my partner isn't really my patient):

>>> >>she has a history of galactorrhea (since age 18 or so - she's 32 now)

>>> >>and has always had infrequent, heavy periods (every other months to

>>> >>every three months). No history of pregnancy. Prolactin levels are

>>> >>very high (I don't have the lab values handy, but the endocrinologist

>>> >>said much higher than is normal for PCOS, almost pregnancy-level), MRI

>>> >>did not show any abnormality of the pituitary.

>>> >>

>>> >>In terms of TCM diagnosis, as I said I don't fully trust my perspective

>>> >>as her partner, but I would say she's pretty much a " Xiao Yao Wan " type:

>>> >>a little Spleen deficiency (she is a student, after all) and a little

>>> >>Liver Qi Stagnation. She's generally healthy: sleeps well, eats/digests

>>> >>well, no major historical health issues. No signs of heat, tends more

>>> >>to cold. She wants to try herbs before going on the medication course

>>> >>(I think a dopamine agonist) prescribed by the endocrinologist, who said

>>> >>go ahead, give it three months. The question is, what to try? I have

>>> >>her taking mai ya for now, but could it really be strong enough? Does

>>> >>anyone have any experience with such a thing, or with stopping lactation

>>> >>generally? Do folks think that acupuncture is a better thing to try?

>>> >>

>>> >>2. While on the subject, I live in an area with a fair number of

>>> >> " visible " transsexuals (I mostly know FTMs, but there are MTFs of course

>>> >>as well). Some of them want to transition with the minimum of synthetic

>>> >>hormone. Does anyone have any good information on regulating hormones

>>> >>to this kind of degree with Chinese herbs? There are lots of factors of

>>> >>course, including whether the person has their ovaries/testes removed,

>>> >>and if they choose to get, say, testosterone shots, what the long-term

>>> >>effects are and whether side effects can be mediated with herbs. Any

>>> >>experience out there? Any known articles on the subject?

>>> >>

>>> >>Thanks for any advice you can give,

>>> >>Nora

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

>>> board

>>> >>approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

>>> >>discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

>>> >>

[Guest guest]

One modern liang weighs either 31.25 g or 37.5 g, depending on whether

you are in the People's Republic of China or elsewhere. Taiwan and

overseas Chinese throughout the world (such as in America and Canada)

still use the original liang, but the PRC uses a rounded version; I'm

not sure about Singapore.

 

One jin= 16 liang, 1 liang= 10 qian, 1 qian=10 fen. The discrepancy in

weights within the PRC and abroad exists because the PRC government

rounded the weight of one jin to simplify the conversion from Chinese

weights to the metric system. One jin in America or Taiwan equals

about 600 g, so one liang equals about 37.5 g, and one qian equals

3.75 g. However, in the PRC, the jin was made equal to 1/2 a kilogram

for ease of measurement. So a PRC jin weighs 500 g and a PRC liang

weighs 31.25 g. This latter figure is the one typically used in

English TCM books, rounded down to 3. Consequently, a drug that is

dosed at 1-3 qian is weighed at 3-9g on a metric scale, but weighed

closer to 4-11 g if weighed on a traditional qian scale in America.

 

The dose of mai ya is 60-120 g for the purpose of terminating

lactation. The liang/ounce problem that you mentioned was probably

just a typo. However, I don't know where you got the figure that 2 oz

equals about 1.133 liang. Two US ounces = 1.51 liang or 1.81 PRC

liang. Maybe your reference was a liang weight of a different time

period.

 

Eric

 

, Nora <nora@h...> wrote:

> Hey Cara,

>

> Sorry to bug again, but one more question on the dosage: the old online

> converters tell me 2 oz equals about 1.133 liang, and that 2 liang

> equals about 3.5 oz; 20 liang would be about 600 g!!! The latter seems

> too high; I presume that you meant a daily dosage of about 2 liang; but

> I wanted to check because you just never know.

>

> Thanks,

> Nora

>

> Cara Frank wrote:

>

> >Hi Nora,

> >You can treat galactorrhea with very high does of Mai Ya- at least

2 ounces

> >( 20 Liang daily). You wont get results using less. You could

incorporate

> >into a xiao yao san scenario. But I think you also want to include

herbs

> >that conduct blood down: wang bu liu xing for example. Yi mu cao as

well.

> >You don¹t mention \ the quality of her menses.

> >Try the herbs for 2-3 months, then repeat the blood work. I have

treated

> >several of these cases, all with success. But to be fair, they all had

> >pituitary tumors, so I don¹t know if that affects the outcome.

> >

> > hope this helps,

> >Cara

> >

> >

> >

> >>Hey All,

> >>

> >>I have some herb/hormone questions for you:

> >>

> >>1. My partner, a harried grad-student type, recently went through

some

> >>un-fun medicalization after a routine gynecological check-up,

involving

> >>the school clinic doc being SURE that she (my partner) had PCOS, and

> >>eventually getting a referral to an endocrinologist, who diagnosed

> >>idiopathic galactorrhea.

> >>

> >>Some history (incomplete, because my partner isn't really my patient):

> >>she has a history of galactorrhea (since age 18 or so - she's 32 now)

> >>and has always had infrequent, heavy periods (every other months to

> >>every three months). No history of pregnancy. Prolactin levels are

> >>very high (I don't have the lab values handy, but the endocrinologist

> >>said much higher than is normal for PCOS, almost pregnancy-level), MRI

> >>did not show any abnormality of the pituitary.

> >>

> >>In terms of TCM diagnosis, as I said I don't fully trust my

perspective

> >>as her partner, but I would say she's pretty much a " Xiao Yao Wan "

type:

> >>a little Spleen deficiency (she is a student, after all) and a little

> >>Liver Qi Stagnation. She's generally healthy: sleeps well,

eats/digests

> >>well, no major historical health issues. No signs of heat, tends more

> >>to cold. She wants to try herbs before going on the medication course

> >>(I think a dopamine agonist) prescribed by the endocrinologist,

who said

> >>go ahead, give it three months. The question is, what to try? I have

> >>her taking mai ya for now, but could it really be strong enough? Does

> >>anyone have any experience with such a thing, or with stopping

lactation

> >>generally? Do folks think that acupuncture is a better thing to try?

> >>

> >>2. While on the subject, I live in an area with a fair number of

> >> " visible " transsexuals (I mostly know FTMs, but there are MTFs of

course

> >>as well). Some of them want to transition with the minimum of

synthetic

> >>hormone. Does anyone have any good information on regulating hormones

> >>to this kind of degree with Chinese herbs? There are lots of

factors of

> >>course, including whether the person has their ovaries/testes removed,

> >>and if they choose to get, say, testosterone shots, what the long-term

> >>effects are and whether side effects can be mediated with herbs. Any

> >>experience out there? Any known articles on the subject?

> >>

> >>Thanks for any advice you can give,

> >>Nora

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services,

including board

> >>approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

> >>discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>