fun with hormones

[Guest guest]

Hi Nora,

 

About a year ago, I did some exploring into the question of safer, herbal

alternatives to hormones for the transgendered community. Part of this included

learning about the dangers of lifelong hormone therapy - which can be severe and

complicated, indeed. I spent some time learning from the transgendered

population in San Diego that they are, unfortunately, not concerned at all about

these dangers, and that they, for the most part, don't want to look into

alternatives. Hopefully, you will find a different mentality where you are

located. Since there wasn't any interest, I didn't continue into researching

herbal alternatives.

 

If you want to dialog further with me, you may contact me off-line.

 

 

 

 

Nora <nora wrote:

Hey All,

 

I have some herb/hormone questions for you:

 

1. My partner, a harried grad-student type, recently went through some

un-fun medicalization after a routine gynecological check-up, involving

the school clinic doc being SURE that she (my partner) had PCOS, and

eventually getting a referral to an endocrinologist, who diagnosed

idiopathic galactorrhea.

 

Some history (incomplete, because my partner isn't really my patient):

she has a history of galactorrhea (since age 18 or so - she's 32 now)

and has always had infrequent, heavy periods (every other months to

every three months). No history of pregnancy. Prolactin levels are

very high (I don't have the lab values handy, but the endocrinologist

said much higher than is normal for PCOS, almost pregnancy-level), MRI

did not show any abnormality of the pituitary.

 

In terms of TCM diagnosis, as I said I don't fully trust my perspective

as her partner, but I would say she's pretty much a " Xiao Yao Wan " type:

a little Spleen deficiency (she is a student, after all) and a little

Liver Qi Stagnation. She's generally healthy: sleeps well, eats/digests

well, no major historical health issues. No signs of heat, tends more

to cold. She wants to try herbs before going on the medication course

(I think a dopamine agonist) prescribed by the endocrinologist, who said

go ahead, give it three months. The question is, what to try? I have

her taking mai ya for now, but could it really be strong enough? Does

anyone have any experience with such a thing, or with stopping lactation

generally? Do folks think that acupuncture is a better thing to try?

 

2. While on the subject, I live in an area with a fair number of

" visible " transsexuals (I mostly know FTMs, but there are MTFs of course

as well). Some of them want to transition with the minimum of synthetic

hormone. Does anyone have any good information on regulating hormones

to this kind of degree with Chinese herbs? There are lots of factors of

course, including whether the person has their ovaries/testes removed,

and if they choose to get, say, testosterone shots, what the long-term

effects are and whether side effects can be mediated with herbs. Any

experience out there? Any known articles on the subject?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give,

Nora

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Cara

Thanks for getting back to me.

My patient has a mostly wiry pulse, her tongue is dry with a bit of a dirty coat

at the back, a little dull/dark (stasis) and reddish at the front.

As I mentioned I've been using big dose (maybe I should increase even higher?)

Mai Ya with other herbs for > 6 months. Regular bloods show no change in

prolactin (and only minimal changes to FSH, LH, E2 and P) so far and I'm

wondering what I'm missing, or if this is just going to take a long time.

Testosterone and SHBG are normal.

Any further suggestions appreciated.

Regards, Tanya

 

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

Hi Tanya,

havening not seen this woman, ( and no tongue or pulse) it¹s hard to

comment.

but I will say this: the only research I have read on the tx of

hyperprolactinemia is based on Mai Ya alone, used as a single.

I have my patients repeat blood work every 2-3 months ( I suggest 2 months.

They get around to it by the 3rd). Prolactin levels should be decreasing.

I have also had success with a multi-modality approach using a yam/

progesterone cream in combination w/ the herbs.

You could also suggest they chart their basal body temp to see if they begin

to ovulate.

 

Cara

 

> Hi Cara

> I've been reading this discussion on hyperprolactinemia with

> interest. I'm currently treating a woman with 'idiopathic'

> hyperprolactinemia. Her levels are very high - over 1400, but she has

> never lactated. Her pituitary MRI is clear, although I suspect

> microtumours. Hence my interest in your experience of treating these

> types. My patient was amenorrheic. I have been treating her for over

> 6 months. She has established a 32-38 day 'cycle' but is obviously

> not ovulating as her prolactin levels are unchanged.

> She is predominantly a Qi stasis with heat type. Her treatment has

> been mostly herbal, along the lines of regulating Qi and Blood,

> clearing heat, and have included (big dose)Chao Mai Ya, Wang Bu Liu

> Xing. I have recently started to tonify blood more as well as include

> stronger herbs to move blood, soften lumps and disperse phlegm, based

> on the presumption that previous treatment has not affected the

> tumours (a more'westernised' approach to diagnosis.)

> You say you have had results after 3 months treatment of pituitary

> tumour hyperprolactinemia, so I am interested in any suggestions you

> might have on my case.

> Regards,

> Tanya

>

>

> , Cara Frank <herbbabe@v...>

> wrote:

>> > Hi Nora,

>> > You can treat galactorrhea with very high does of Mai Ya- at least

> 2 ounces

>> > ( 20 Liang daily). You wont get results using less. You could

> incorporate

>> > into a xiao yao san scenario. But I think you also want to include

> herbs

>> > that conduct blood down: wang bu liu xing for example. Yi mu cao as

> well.

>> > You don¹t mention \ the quality of her menses.

>> > Try the herbs for 2-3 months, then repeat the blood work. I have

> treated

>> > several of these cases, all with success. But to be fair, they all

> had

>> > pituitary tumors, so I don¹t know if that affects the outcome.

>> >

>> > hope this helps,

>> > Cara

>> >

>>> > > Hey All,

>>> > >

>>> > > I have some herb/hormone questions for you:

>>> > >

>>> > > 1. My partner, a harried grad-student type, recently went

> through some

>>> > > un-fun medicalization after a routine gynecological check-up,

> involving

>>> > > the school clinic doc being SURE that she (my partner) had PCOS,

> and

>>> > > eventually getting a referral to an endocrinologist, who diagnosed

>>> > > idiopathic galactorrhea.

>>> > >

>>> > > Some history (incomplete, because my partner isn't really my

> patient):

>>> > > she has a history of galactorrhea (since age 18 or so - she's 32

> now)

>>> > > and has always had infrequent, heavy periods (every other months

> to

>>> > > every three months). No history of pregnancy. Prolactin levels

> are

>>> > > very high (I don't have the lab values handy, but the

> endocrinologist

>>> > > said much higher than is normal for PCOS, almost pregnancy-

> level), MRI

>>> > > did not show any abnormality of the pituitary.

>>> > >

>>> > > In terms of TCM diagnosis, as I said I don't fully trust my

> perspective

>>> > > as her partner, but I would say she's pretty much a " Xiao Yao

> Wan " type:

>>> > > a little Spleen deficiency (she is a student, after all) and a

> little

>>> > > Liver Qi Stagnation. She's generally healthy: sleeps well,

> eats/digests

>>> > > well, no major historical health issues. No signs of heat, tends

> more

>>> > > to cold. She wants to try herbs before going on the medication

> course

>>> > > (I think a dopamine agonist) prescribed by the endocrinologist,

> who said

>>> > > go ahead, give it three months. The question is, what to try? I

> have

>>> > > her taking mai ya for now, but could it really be strong enough?

> Does

>>> > > anyone have any experience with such a thing, or with stopping

> lactation

>>> > > generally? Do folks think that acupuncture is a better thing to

> try?

>>> > >

>>> > > 2. While on the subject, I live in an area with a fair number of

>>> > > " visible " transsexuals (I mostly know FTMs, but there are MTFs of

> course

>>> > > as well). Some of them want to transition with the minimum of

> synthetic

>>> > > hormone. Does anyone have any good information on regulating

> hormones

>>> > > to this kind of degree with Chinese herbs? There are lots of

> factors of

>>> > > course, including whether the person has their ovaries/testes

> removed,

>>> > > and if they choose to get, say, testosterone shots, what the long-

> term

>>> > > effects are and whether side effects can be mediated with herbs.

> Any

>>> > > experience out there? Any known articles on the subject?

>>> > >

>>> > > Thanks for any advice you can give,

>>> > > Nora

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > > Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services,

> including board

>>> > > approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

> free

>>> > > discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >

>>> > >