qi and self-organization

May 22, 2005

There is a fundamental idea in biochemistry (and chemistry in

general), which is that chemicals and molecules have what are called

self-organizing tendencies. Put basic stuff in a given environment

and it will react and interact. The materialistic view of life is

that it arose from this self-organizing tendency plus the right

environment. Humans eventually resulted from the evolution of these

self-organizing organisms. We were not inevitable, just a product of

chance and the natural tendency for matter to self-organize. Most

scientists do not believe it is likely that there are ANY humanoid

aliens who evolved on other worlds in this galaxy (though perhaps we

did not evolve here, but that's another story).

It could be argued that the whole universe is alive by the definition

of life as self-organizing. I like that. It is like the

neoconfucian idea that everything has qi. I understand the big Dao

to be the unmanifest, the original chaos, from which order is

constantly emerging and being reabsorbed. It is not conscious in

that personal way (an intelligent designer), but rather is the source

of consciousness as it manifests intelligent behavior in the form of

self-organization from the moment of the big bang. Perhaps there is

an intelligent designer that created certain fundamental forces or

irreducible structures (god the engineer). I just don't think the

Dao was ever conceived by any Chinese philosophers in that sense of

spiritual.

But that still leaves us with this mysterious force of self-

organization. What does it mean? The modern ideas I have always

thought came closest to the certain aspects of the qi paradigm

involved systems theory, information science, complexity and

computational theory, all of which depend upon the principle of self-

organization to some degree. Qi is associated with all the functions

of the body (warming, transforming, defending, etc.), yet we know of

the molecules involved in these processes, but have not yet found the

qi. Qi leads to tissues being nourished and wastes excreted. I have

argued elsewhere this may be the primary function of what is called

the qi dynamic. This proper balance of nutrition, defense, movement

and excretion are dependent upon the proper production and

organization of molecules. These are the cellular transformations of

qi. Materialists say these systems self-organize. Vitalists say

something hierarchical does the organizing of gross matter (the LIFE

force, as it were). To a materialist, the qi paradigm merely

describes something, but provides no evidence of causality.

There are other discrete invisible forces in nature (all of which

play essential roles in self-organization at either macro or micro

levels). These include gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and

weak nuclear forces. They can only be known by their effects. They

cannot be isolated in any way. Perhaps qi is like one of these, but

the biological equivalent. I used to think that qi must be the

dysentropic force that counters the tendency of all CLOSED chemical

systems in labs to move towards equilibrium or death. However in

nature and labs, OPEN chemical systems do not move towards death, but

interact in ever greater complexity producing new forms as long as

material to exploit abound. And this move away from entropy happens

in systems that fall far short of the conventional definition of

life. If everything is alive and intelligent to some degree

(everything has qi), then there really is no dividing line between so-

called life and so-called chemicals. All chemistry becomes

biochemistry. It is certainly not so-called life alone that forms

regular, persistent dysentropic forms.

So there does not seem to be a life force that is unique to so-called

life. Self-organization and development of complex forms occurs in

much of the nonliving world. The neoconfucians when thinking about

the same idea seemed to have come to the same conclusion when they

decided all manifest existence was infused with qi. The most

essential quality of qi to these philosophers was its ability to

transform. Changing one thing to another is also essential for self-

organization. This idea is also common to ayurveda, where even

minerals have prana and can thus affect animals. How could a dead

lump at equilibrium have profound effects on physiology. In fact,

our bodies depend on rocks in the form of mineral ions. We assume we

are using this dead stuff for our lives, but how could death feed

life. Only an already organized substance (electrons in a certain

configuration around a nucleus of certain weight) could aid in the

further and more complex organizations of biology. Could it be that

self-organization is just a property of nature and has no greater

meaning or cause than that, just like mass exerts gravity? It is the

strange quirk of our existence that confuses this obvious logic.

There must be some reason other than chance that we are here. I

won't touch that one except to comment that many scientists DO

believe there is probably NONHUMANOID life on other planets and that

it may have become self-aware in some cases.

Finally, if qi was like gravity or electromagnetism, why is it not

measurable or predictable like these forces? We can't say that is

because it is biological, because the most sophisticated philosophers

of qi from china would point out that qi is in rocks and streams.

And conversely, we are able to measure electromagnetism and even

nuclear resonance from biological tissues, so merely being encased in

cellular walls does not render a physical force inaccessible to

measurement. If it was a discrete force, then it would leave its

traces just like gravity or photons do. The chinese, koreans and

russians (soviets and old east bloc, I should say) used to do lots of

experiments to try and identify qi as a force like EM waves, as yet

undiscovered. In 50 years, not one peer reviewed article lending

credence to this idea has been published. Now these same countries

do stem cell research and no one there is talking about the qi

paradigm as the cutting edge of 21st century medicine. The qi

paradigm can be used to produce interesting models of systems

interactions based upon its long use as an observational tool, but I

would like to see our profession formally let go of the idea that qi

is some sort of force natural or supernatural. Almost every

mainstream press release on TCM begins with a blurb about qi, energy,

body, mind and spirit. We ned to issue a press release insisting we

have no idea where these ideas came from, but they have nothing to do

with professional TCM in america.

Chinese Herbs

May 23, 2005

If you seriously want to challenge your perspective on alien life and what

our govt knows about it check out this national event broadcast at the

national press club in Washington DC.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/npcwebcast.htm

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> <

>

>cha

> qi and self-organization

>Sun, 22 May 2005 16:51:29 -0700

>

>There is a fundamental idea in biochemistry (and chemistry in

>general), which is that chemicals and molecules have what are called

>self-organizing tendencies. Put basic stuff in a given environment

>and it will react and interact. The materialistic view of life is

>that it arose from this self-organizing tendency plus the right

>environment. Humans eventually resulted from the evolution of these

>self-organizing organisms. We were not inevitable, just a product of

>chance and the natural tendency for matter to self-organize. Most

>scientists do not believe it is likely that there are ANY humanoid

>aliens who evolved on other worlds in this galaxy (though perhaps we

>did not evolve here, but that's another story).

>

>It could be argued that the whole universe is alive by the definition

>of life as self-organizing. I like that. It is like the

>neoconfucian idea that everything has qi. I understand the big Dao

>to be the unmanifest, the original chaos, from which order is

>constantly emerging and being reabsorbed. It is not conscious in

>that personal way (an intelligent designer), but rather is the source

>of consciousness as it manifests intelligent behavior in the form of

>self-organization from the moment of the big bang. Perhaps there is

>an intelligent designer that created certain fundamental forces or

>irreducible structures (god the engineer). I just don't think the

>Dao was ever conceived by any Chinese philosophers in that sense of

>spiritual.

>

>But that still leaves us with this mysterious force of self-

>organization. What does it mean? The modern ideas I have always

>thought came closest to the certain aspects of the qi paradigm

>involved systems theory, information science, complexity and

>computational theory, all of which depend upon the principle of self-

>organization to some degree. Qi is associated with all the functions

>of the body (warming, transforming, defending, etc.), yet we know of

>the molecules involved in these processes, but have not yet found the

>qi. Qi leads to tissues being nourished and wastes excreted. I have

>argued elsewhere this may be the primary function of what is called

>the qi dynamic. This proper balance of nutrition, defense, movement

>and excretion are dependent upon the proper production and

>organization of molecules. These are the cellular transformations of

>qi. Materialists say these systems self-organize. Vitalists say

>something hierarchical does the organizing of gross matter (the LIFE

>force, as it were). To a materialist, the qi paradigm merely

>describes something, but provides no evidence of causality.

>

>There are other discrete invisible forces in nature (all of which

>play essential roles in self-organization at either macro or micro

>levels). These include gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and

>weak nuclear forces. They can only be known by their effects. They

>cannot be isolated in any way. Perhaps qi is like one of these, but

>the biological equivalent. I used to think that qi must be the

>dysentropic force that counters the tendency of all CLOSED chemical

>systems in labs to move towards equilibrium or death. However in

>nature and labs, OPEN chemical systems do not move towards death, but

>interact in ever greater complexity producing new forms as long as

>material to exploit abound. And this move away from entropy happens

>in systems that fall far short of the conventional definition of

>life. If everything is alive and intelligent to some degree

>(everything has qi), then there really is no dividing line between so-

>called life and so-called chemicals. All chemistry becomes

>biochemistry. It is certainly not so-called life alone that forms

>regular, persistent dysentropic forms.

>

>So there does not seem to be a life force that is unique to so-called

>life. Self-organization and development of complex forms occurs in

>much of the nonliving world. The neoconfucians when thinking about

>the same idea seemed to have come to the same conclusion when they

>decided all manifest existence was infused with qi. The most

>essential quality of qi to these philosophers was its ability to

>transform. Changing one thing to another is also essential for self-

>organization. This idea is also common to ayurveda, where even

>minerals have prana and can thus affect animals. How could a dead

>lump at equilibrium have profound effects on physiology. In fact,

>our bodies depend on rocks in the form of mineral ions. We assume we

>are using this dead stuff for our lives, but how could death feed

>life. Only an already organized substance (electrons in a certain

>configuration around a nucleus of certain weight) could aid in the

>further and more complex organizations of biology. Could it be that

>self-organization is just a property of nature and has no greater

>meaning or cause than that, just like mass exerts gravity? It is the

>strange quirk of our existence that confuses this obvious logic.

>There must be some reason other than chance that we are here. I

>won't touch that one except to comment that many scientists DO

>believe there is probably NONHUMANOID life on other planets and that

>it may have become self-aware in some cases.

>

>Finally, if qi was like gravity or electromagnetism, why is it not

>measurable or predictable like these forces? We can't say that is

>because it is biological, because the most sophisticated philosophers

>of qi from china would point out that qi is in rocks and streams.

>And conversely, we are able to measure electromagnetism and even

>nuclear resonance from biological tissues, so merely being encased in

>cellular walls does not render a physical force inaccessible to

>measurement. If it was a discrete force, then it would leave its

>traces just like gravity or photons do. The chinese, koreans and

>russians (soviets and old east bloc, I should say) used to do lots of

>experiments to try and identify qi as a force like EM waves, as yet

>undiscovered. In 50 years, not one peer reviewed article lending

>credence to this idea has been published. Now these same countries

>do stem cell research and no one there is talking about the qi

>paradigm as the cutting edge of 21st century medicine. The qi

>paradigm can be used to produce interesting models of systems

>interactions based upon its long use as an observational tool, but I

>would like to see our profession formally let go of the idea that qi

>is some sort of force natural or supernatural. Almost every

>mainstream press release on TCM begins with a blurb about qi, energy,

>body, mind and spirit. We ned to issue a press release insisting we

>have no idea where these ideas came from, but they have nothing to do

>with professional TCM in america.

>

>Chinese Herbs

>

May 23, 2005

I think that your conclusions to life are a bit problematic and can be

easily contradicted by others works. Besides, this does not seem to be

really connected to Chinese herbal medicine and I do not see any integration

with us either, so why post this?