Guest guest Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 What is the basis of your doubt? My personal experience of using the material for over twelve years is that it does boost qi and I recognize that this is no basis for generalization. I agree that we don't have a 'final' on the description, however, the usage patterns for the materials certainly suggest that it is a qi supplement. The following studies are also suggestive of a qi boosting function. The gypenoside structures are so similar to ginsenosides with comparative studies supporting that notion that I am certainly weighing in that jiao gu lan boosts qi. Having seen Chen and Chen's comments about side effects however and will have to look into that because I have no experience that confirms such problems. I am looking into changing my views. 17. Zhou, S.R. A preliminary study on the effectsof Gynostemma pentaphyllum on endurance, spontaneous motor activity and superoxide dismutase in mice. Asia Pacific Journal of Pharmacology 1990; 5(4): 321-322. 18. Song, W.M., et al. Comparison of the adaptogenic effect of jiaogulan and ginseng. Zhong Cao Yao. Chinese. 1992; 23(3): 136. 19. Zhang, Yi-Qun, et al. Immediate effects of a gypenosides-containing tonic on the echocardiography of healthy persons of various ages. Journal of Guiyang Medical College 1993; 18(4):261. 20. Zhou, Ying-Na, et al. Influence ofkiwifruit/jiaogulan recipe on the lung function and exercise endurance under exercise workload. Journal of Guiyang Medical College. Chinese. 1993; 18(4): 256. 21. Liu, Jialiu, et al. Overallhealth-strengthening effects of a gypenosides-containing tonic in middle-aged and aged persons. Journal of Guiyang Medical College. 1993; 18(3):146. 22. Chen, L.F., et al. Comparison between theeffects of gypenosides and ginsenosides on cardiac function and hemodynamics in dogs. Zhongguo Yaolixue Yu Dulixue Zazhi. Chinese. 1990; 4(1): 17-20. Will personally doubt Jiao Gu Lan supplements the qi. Like some other hinese meds I can think of, I do not think we have a " final " CM escription of this herb. Bob , WMorris116@A... wrote: > Dear All: > > I apologize for the absence...my duties have kept me. > > Will > > Very intesrting discussion re jiao gu lan...love it because cooling agents > that boost qi are useful. > > Name > Gynostemma pentaphyllum > Jiaogulan (Chinese: twisting-vine-orchid) > Xiancao (Chinese: herb of immortality) > Southern Ginseng > Dungkulcha (Korean) > Amachazuru (Japanese: sweet tea vine) > Family > Gynostemma is a member of the Cucurbitaceae or cucumber family. > > History > Gynostemma was first recorded during the Ming Dynasty as an agent used for > famines. (1368-1644 AD). Today, evidence of this can be seen in texts for > famines. In 1406 Zhu Xiao describes Gynostemma in his medical text Materia Medica > for Famine; here, the herb is described mainly as a dietary aid in times of > hardship. Later, around 1578 Li Shi Zhen describes Gynostemma in his text > Compendium of Materia Medica. This is the earliest reference to the use of > Gynostemma as a drug, being used to treat blood in the urine, edema, tumours and > trauma. During the Qing Dynasty (1644-1912 AD) Wu Qi Jun again includes Gynostemma > in his materia medica, Textual Investigations of Medicinal Plants, and adds a > little more detail to the previous texts. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 " The following studies are also suggestive of a qi boosting function. 17. Zhou, S.R. A preliminary study on the effectsof Gynostemma pentaphyllum on endurance, spontaneous motor activity and superoxide dismutase in mice. Asia Pacific Journal of Pharmacology 1990; 5(4): 321-322. 18. Song, W.M., et al. Comparison of the adaptogenic effect of jiaogulan and ginseng. Zhong Cao Yao. Chinese. 1992; 23(3): 136. 19. Zhang, Yi-Qun, et al. Immediate effects of a gypenosides-containing tonic on the echocardiography of healthy persons of various ages. Journal of Guiyang Medical College 1993; 18(4):261. 20. Zhou, Ying-Na, et al. Influence ofkiwifruit/jiaogulan recipe on the lung function and exercise endurance under exercise workload. Journal of Guiyang Medical College. Chinese. 1993; 18(4): 256. 21. Liu, Jialiu, et al. Overallhealth-strengthening effects of a gypenosides-containing tonic in middle-aged and aged persons. Journal of Guiyang Medical College. 1993; 18(3):146. 22. Chen, L.F., et al. Comparison between theeffects of gypenosides and ginsenosides on cardiac function and hemodynamics in dogs. Zhongguo Yaolixue Yu Dulixue Zazhi. Chinese. 1990; 4(1): 17-20. Will, Sorry, I don't have access to any of the above articles. So I cannot comment on them directly. However, 1) all these articles seem somewhat dated -- early 90s. I'd like to see some more contemporary research. Chinese medicine, even in China, has its fads just like everything else. 2) " Over-all health strengthening " does not necessarily imply qi supplementation. Health may improve because of the elimination of evil qi. Zhang Zi-he was not totally wrong about this. Just as a for instance, re citation #20: some Chinese doctors believe that, because the lungs are the florid canopy and heat naturally floats upward, most peoples' lungs harbor deep-lying heat evils. If such deep-lying heat evils hinder and obstruct the lungs' downbearing and diffusing, then clearing those heat evils should logically result in improvement in lung function. In other words, just because a biological function improves, it doesn't mean the CM mechanism for that improvement is qi supplementation. Similarly, the word " adaptogen " does not necessarily imply qi supplementation. Seems to me all Chinese medicinals are adaptogenic in the sense that they promote and restore healthy homeostasis when prescribed correctly. I would like to actually read some of the articles you reference. However, unless I can find them on-line, it's probably not likely I ever will. Have you read each of these citations? If so, where? I too would like to get clearer about this medicinal. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 " My personal experience of using the material for over twelve years is that it does boost qi... " Will, What are your criteria for making this statement? Have you used this med alone for qi vacuity and seen objective signs and symptoms of improvement in that qi vacuity? If so, what kind of qi vacuity? What particular signs and symptoms improved? Did you rule out the influence of 1) placebo (including your beliefs about this med), 2) the self-limiting nature of the patient's condition (if appropriate), and 3) any other factors, such as diet, exercise, rest, or weather, which might have been the actual causes of the improvement? If you have used this med in polypharmacy formulas along with qi supplements, how do you know the Jiao Gu Lan supplemented the qi and not one of the other ingredients. I'm just trying to get clear on your assertions so that I can judge their relevance. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Bob, This is an interesting point, considering how Western herbal texts view 'tonics'. Such bitter cold medicinals such as golden seal are considered to be tonics in such texts as Jethro Kloss's herbal and Felter's works. The bitter tonics stimulate secretion of digestive juices, improving digestion and appetite, therefore are considered to be rejuvenative tonics. Thus, the development of such famous elixirs as " Swedish bitters " . Twenty years ago, Dan Bensky claimed that small amounts of long dan xie gan tang could improve digestion in the same manner. So, physiologically speaking, we can say that some bitter cold medicinals are 'tonics' to the digestive system. In Chinese medicine, we would say they clear damp heat, fire, and/or food accumulation from the stomach. I've done my own personal study of single medicinals over the year by taking them for extended periods. Most recently, I've taken a liquid extract of hong jing tian from Herb Pharm, a 5 to 1 extract, approx. 100 drops daily. I found it to be mildly 'stimulating', clearing my head, strengthening my breathing, and calming to the spirit. The an shen quality could be related to its beautiful rose-like aroma. Having a history of lung qi vacuity and occasional upper burner heat, this could explain its perceived 'supplementing' effect. I've also taken jiao gu lan for an extended period, and did not notice any qi supplementing effects. It seemed to me to be very similar to drinking green tea, mildly stimulating cooling, and mildly dispersing. On Jun 1, 2005, at 9:00 AM, Bob Flaws wrote: > " Over-all health strengthening " does not necessarily imply qi > supplementation. Health may improve because of the elimination of evil > qi. Zhang Zi-he was not totally wrong about this. Just as a for > instance, re citation #20: some Chinese doctors believe that, because > the lungs are the florid canopy and heat naturally floats upward, most > peoples' lungs harbor deep-lying heat evils. If such deep-lying heat > evils hinder and obstruct the lungs' downbearing and diffusing, then > clearing those heat evils should logically result in improvement in > lung function. In other words, just because a biological function > improves, it doesn't mean the CM mechanism for that improvement is qi > supplementation. Similarly, the word " adaptogen " does not necessarily > imply qi supplementation. Seems to me all Chinese medicinals are > adaptogenic in the sense that they promote and restore healthy > homeostasis when prescribed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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