Guest guest Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Bob - A personal experience does not a controlled study make, therefore my previous caveat about generalizability. That said, I have used the material to boost wei qi for people who have frequent colds. I can't rule out placebo because I believe in placebo maximization for clinical case management, research is another story. I think you are mixing controlled trial criteria with the more common practice of physicians or any other profession sharing the stories of success and failure (the most common transmission). That said, for the purposes of case management I ruled out the other factors that you consider. I usually prescribe the material solo and consume it solo. Improved performance capacity in the context of fatigue, improved athletic performance, better feelings of energy for chronic fatigue patients are my experience. I would suggest (and this is based on my experience as previously iterated) that it boosts wei qi and rectifies zong qi. Will Will, What are your criteria for making this statement? Have you used this med alone for qi vacuity and seen objective signs and symptoms of improvement in that qi vacuity? If so, what kind of qi vacuity? What particular signs and symptoms improved? Did you rule out the influence of 1) placebo (including your beliefs about this med), 2) the self-limiting nature of the patient's condition (if appropriate), and 3) any other factors, such as diet, exercise, rest, or weather, which might have been the actual causes of the improvement? If you have used this med in polypharmacy formulas along with qi supplements, how do you know the Jiao Gu Lan supplemented the qi and not one of the other ingredients. I'm just trying to get clear on your assertions so that I can judge their relevance. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 This is an excellent point and flushing it out would certainly contribute to a better understanding of the medicinal. I read some of the citations years ago when I collected them, I no longer have them. I think however, the direction of the aggregate investigations is highly suggestive of a qi boosting function. Will Chinese doctors believe that, because the lungs are the florid canopy and heat naturally floats upward, most peoples' lungs harbor deep-lying heat evils. If such deep-lying heat evils hinder and obstruct the lungs' downbearing and diffusing, then clearing those heat evils should logically result in improvement in lung function. In other words, just because a biological function improves, it doesn't mean the CM mechanism for that improvement is qi supplementation. Similarly, the word " adaptogen " does not necessarily imply qi supplementation. Seems to me all Chinese medicinals are adaptogenic in the sense that they promote and restore healthy homeostasis when prescribed correctly. I would like to actually read some of the articles you reference. However, unless I can find them on-line, it's probably not likely I ever will. Have you read each of these citations? If so, where? I too would like to get clearer about this medicinal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Will, Sorry, I don't agree. You made a claim and I was asking for clarification on criteria for that claim. My request had nothing to do with RCTs -- just substantiation of an assertion. I believe we've had enough of unsubstantiated assertions of efficacy in this profession. Until assertions of efficacy are looked at critically, we're all just shooting the breeze. Bob , WMorris116@A... wrote: > > Bob - > > A personal experience does not a controlled study make, therefore my > previous caveat about generalizability. That said, I have used the material to boost > wei qi for people who have frequent colds. I can't rule out placebo because > I believe in placebo maximization for clinical case management, research is > another story. I think you are mixing controlled trial criteria with the more > common practice of physicians or any other profession sharing the stories of > success and failure (the most common transmission). That said, for the > purposes of case management I ruled out the other factors that you consider. I > usually prescribe the material solo and consume it solo. Improved performance > capacity in the context of fatigue, improved athletic performance, better > feelings of energy for chronic fatigue patients are my experience. I would suggest > (and this is based on my experience as previously iterated) that it boosts > wei qi and rectifies zong qi. > > Will > > Will, > > What are your criteria for making this statement? > > Have you used this med alone for qi vacuity and seen objective signs > and symptoms of improvement in that qi vacuity? If so, what kind of qi > vacuity? What particular signs and symptoms improved? Did you rule out > the influence of 1) placebo (including your beliefs about this med), > 2) the self-limiting nature of the patient's condition (if > appropriate), and 3) any other factors, such as diet, exercise, rest, > or weather, which might have been the actual causes of the improvement? > > If you have used this med in polypharmacy formulas along with qi > supplements, how do you know the Jiao Gu Lan supplemented the qi and > not one of the other ingredients. > > I'm just trying to get clear on your assertions so that I can judge > their relevance. > > Bob > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.