BP goes PBL

[Guest guest]

Bob

 

I saw the new OB book has PBL exercises. Cool. If we don't adopt

this approach, then MDs can always use the approach to learn TCM

themselves. We always hear a lot of whining about MDs practicing

without training, thus making them a danger. However despite the

vitriole you hear on this list, there is no evidence that MDs are

doing either poorly or incompetently in alternative medicine. We

hear nasty anecdotes. But both Bob and Roger will tell you their

BEST students in recent years have been MDs, hands down. so the

charges are just baseless territorial crap. Why are MDs so good at

grokking TCM when they try. Because they have a problem solving

mentality. The concept of PBL at its heart (lifelong self-learning)

suggests that someone with the training of an MD is more than

qualified to take on the self-study of TCM. If they want to go for

it, all evidence suggests sitting in a 4 year TCM school would give

literally NO added value to such a student.

 

Its not because they are smarter than us (though most probably are).

Its because the teaching model used in most of our schools is, to be

blunt, almost completely without any educational value. Face it,

most of us old timers plus quite a few of the up and coming newbie

translator-scholars like Jason and Eric are all pretty much self-

motivated self-taught folks. I know for a fact that the veterans all

pretty much learned our stuff through an intuitive problem solving

approach. We learned TCM DESPITE our schools and teachers. Now we

have the research and the weight of 30 years of PBL in WM to back it

all up. I have to point out that most of the generation right before

mine who got into TCM (you are around 50-60 now) made that choice

during the lowpoint of WM. PBL was just getting off the ground in

places like Canada and Australia and not yet in the US. Well,

everything has changed, but it seems like some folks have just

convinced themselves despite the evidence that its just all more of

the same. But then we have a long history of putting out heads in

the sand, don't we?

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Todd:

 

What is the OB book and the PBL exercises that you are referring to. I missed

the past few posts

Brian

 

 

< wrote:

Bob

 

I saw the new OB book has PBL exercises. Cool. If we don't adopt

this approach, then MDs can always use the approach to learn TCM

themselves. We always hear a lot of whining about MDs practicing

without training, thus making them a danger. However despite the

vitriole you hear on this list, there is no evidence that MDs are

doing either poorly or incompetently in alternative medicine. We

hear nasty anecdotes. But both Bob and Roger will tell you their

BEST students in recent years have been MDs, hands down. so the

charges are just baseless territorial crap. Why are MDs so good at

grokking TCM when they try. Because they have a problem solving

mentality. The concept of PBL at its heart (lifelong self-learning)

suggests that someone with the training of an MD is more than

qualified to take on the self-study of TCM. If they want to go for

it, all evidence suggests sitting in a 4 year TCM school would give

literally NO added value to such a student.

 

Its not because they are smarter than us (though most probably are).

Its because the teaching model used in most of our schools is, to be

blunt, almost completely without any educational value. Face it,

most of us old timers plus quite a few of the up and coming newbie

translator-scholars like Jason and Eric are all pretty much self-

motivated self-taught folks. I know for a fact that the veterans all

pretty much learned our stuff through an intuitive problem solving

approach. We learned TCM DESPITE our schools and teachers. Now we

have the research and the weight of 30 years of PBL in WM to back it

all up. I have to point out that most of the generation right before

mine who got into TCM (you are around 50-60 now) made that choice

during the lowpoint of WM. PBL was just getting off the ground in

places like Canada and Australia and not yet in the US. Well,

everything has changed, but it seems like some folks have just

convinced themselves despite the evidence that its just all more of

the same. But then we have a long history of putting out heads in

the sand, don't we?

 

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/8/05 11:35:18 AM, writes:

 

 

> However despite the 

> vitriole you hear on this list, there is no evidence that MDs are 

> doing either poorly or incompetently in alternative medicine.  We 

> hear nasty anecdotes.  But both Bob and Roger will tell you their 

> BEST students in recent years have been MDs,  hands down.  so the 

> charges are just baseless territorial crap. 

>

 

I guess it comes down to the territorial " ness " of the MDs, who do not

deserve a lot of their own limitless scope, much less ours. Practically every

other

country has antibiotics and some forms of codiene OTC, to put it simply. Do we

have less access to these " dangerous " things? No. We just have to pay more

for them because of a middle man.

Secondly, it is also effectiveness. An MD does a poor job of TCM or whatever,

and the patient thnks that it doesn't work, not that the MD doesn't work. I

am not talking about the ethical exceptions here. Patients still worship

doctors, and to be truthful, it is a perfect example of OM's not being a placebo

when the MD's do a terrible job and don't get results, and go back to the tried

and true (and medically effective, but useless and actually detrimental, in so

many cases) drugs and surgery.

 

 

 

David Molony

101 Bridge Street

Catasauqua, PA 18032

Phone (610)264-2755

Fax (610) 264-7292

 

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[Guest guest]

, Brian Hardy <mischievous00>

wrote:

:

>

> What is the OB book and the PBL exercises that you are referring to. I missed

the past few

posts

> Brian

>

 

 

there are no other posts on this topic.

 

OB - obstetrics

 

PBL - problem based learning