Restless legs

August 3, 2005

What is its TCM etiology? How to differentiate it? How to treat it from a TCM

and

Nutritional/supplement perspective.

Isn't this written about in any TCM books that I can get?

I have a patient who complains of restless legs. He has very slow

progressing/stable

Multiple Sclerosis with secondary trigeminal neuralgia and some weakness in the

legs. I

have controlled the trigeminal neuralgia greatly by giving him a box of 1mm tacs

which he

puts in on his own when needed. (Great for him bad for my practice). He does

not

complain of frequent urination. He is in his early 50's

TCM signs and symptoms include: ice flow cracked tongue with a thick sl. dark

geographic coat. Pulses are wiry without. He generally presents as yin

deficient. He

works in the sun frequently running a landscape business.

Thanks for the help.

Alex Berks L. Ac.

August 3, 2005

In my experience this is a difficult condition to treat. I suggest read up on

Tian Wang Bu Xin Dan (F & S pg 378) as a starting point -- it is indicated for

very restless sleep with the pattern fo heart & kidney yin vacuity.

Rory

August 3, 2005

Hi Alex,

I also haven't found much info about this, and have had a few patients come to

me for treatment, which was unfortunately unsuccesful with acupuncture. One CHA

member contributed an acupuncture treatment protocol which he found useful, but

which did not work for me. I have noticed some similarities between the

restless legs patients I have seen, though, which may be useful for you.

I live northern Arizona, and I see and hear about restless legs quite a bit

here, though I never did when I lived in San Diego. Take that into

consideration with the dry and hot climate here (compared with cool, damp San

Diego), and that is part of the picture. Also, the folks here who I have seen

with this all stand alot, or did alot of standing earlier in their lives, and

they are all hot in general and yin deficient. They also have a great deal of

dampness. Lastly, consider irritability to be a symptom of heat, and now we

have several corroborating factors for heat and dryness as part of the

diagnosis.

From a western medical perspective, all of the patients I saw with this

condition had also been diagnosed with sciatica, so there is room for a

diagnosis including nerve involvement. I had been treating primarily huatojiaji

points in the lumbar area with yin nourishing points and those that clear heat.

I was treating my patients with acupuncture alone, since they were all elderly

and on many medications. I did notice in my research that Health Concerns has a

few formulas which they say are useful for restless leg syndrome, but I haven't

tried them. In different parts of their handbook, they mention SPZM with CIR-Q,

or AC-Q, and Flavonex. Good luck, and let us know what works for you and your

patient.

Alex Berks <aberks wrote:

What is its TCM etiology? How to differentiate it? How to treat it from a TCM

and

Nutritional/supplement perspective.

Isn't this written about in any TCM books that I can get?

I have a patient who complains of restless legs. He has very slow

progressing/stable

Multiple Sclerosis with secondary trigeminal neuralgia and some weakness in the

legs. I

have controlled the trigeminal neuralgia greatly by giving him a box of 1mm tacs

which he

puts in on his own when needed. (Great for him bad for my practice). He does

not

complain of frequent urination. He is in his early 50's

TCM signs and symptoms include: ice flow cracked tongue with a thick sl. dark

geographic coat. Pulses are wiry without. He generally presents as yin

deficient. He

works in the sun frequently running a landscape business.

Thanks for the help.

Alex Berks L. Ac.

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

August 4, 2005

Are you addressing wind at all? Given the signs/climate that both of you

have described wind seems to be an important element of this picture that

is not being addressed - spasms, twitches, restlessness, inability to

control muscles, heat, etc. Points I have found useful - although I have

not treated much - include GB 31 and ST 31. Also, herbal substances such

as Mu Gua (which though warm can be used in an appropriate cooling

formula), with Dang Gui & Bai Shao, Yi Yi Ren, Du Huo Qin Jiao, possibly

Tian Ma. Also, Sang Ji Sheng. I also agree with Rory, that exploring a

modification of a formula like Tian Wang Bu Xin Dan could be useful.

Marnae

At 09:59 PM 8/3/2005, you wrote:

>Hi Alex,

>

>I also haven't found much info about this, and have had a few patients

>come to me for treatment, which was unfortunately unsuccesful with

>acupuncture. One CHA member contributed an acupuncture treatment protocol

>which he found useful, but which did not work for me. I have noticed some

>similarities between the restless legs patients I have seen, though, which

>may be useful for you.

>

>I live northern Arizona, and I see and hear about restless legs quite a

>bit here, though I never did when I lived in San Diego. Take that into

>consideration with the dry and hot climate here (compared with cool, damp

>San Diego), and that is part of the picture. Also, the folks here who I

>have seen with this all stand alot, or did alot of standing earlier in

>their lives, and they are all hot in general and yin deficient. They also

>have a great deal of dampness. Lastly, consider irritability to be a

>symptom of heat, and now we have several corroborating factors for heat

>and dryness as part of the diagnosis.

>

> From a western medical perspective, all of the patients I saw with this

> condition had also been diagnosed with sciatica, so there is room for a

> diagnosis including nerve involvement. I had been treating primarily

> huatojiaji points in the lumbar area with yin nourishing points and those

> that clear heat.

>

>I was treating my patients with acupuncture alone, since they were all

>elderly and on many medications. I did notice in my research that Health

>Concerns has a few formulas which they say are useful for restless leg

>syndrome, but I haven't tried them. In different parts of their handbook,

>they mention SPZM with CIR-Q, or AC-Q, and Flavonex. Good luck, and let

>us know what works for you and your patient.

>

>Alex Berks <aberks wrote:

>What is its TCM etiology? How to differentiate it? How to treat it from

>a TCM and

>Nutritional/supplement perspective.

>

>Isn't this written about in any TCM books that I can get?

>

>I have a patient who complains of restless legs. He has very slow

>progressing/stable

>Multiple Sclerosis with secondary trigeminal neuralgia and some weakness

>in the legs. I

>have controlled the trigeminal neuralgia greatly by giving him a box of

>1mm tacs which he

>puts in on his own when needed. (Great for him bad for my practice). He

>does not

>complain of frequent urination. He is in his early 50's

>

>TCM signs and symptoms include: ice flow cracked tongue with a thick sl.

>dark

>geographic coat. Pulses are wiry without. He generally presents as yin

>deficient. He

>works in the sun frequently running a landscape business.

>

>Thanks for the help.

>

>Alex Berks L. Ac.

>

>Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including

>board approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a

>free discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

>

August 4, 2005

Wind, yes! I did also treat for wind, but forgot to mention it, since I was

thinking from memory and not looking at my treatment notes. Thanks for filling

in the gap!

Marnae Ergil <marnae wrote: